Atheist's corner

[ollieplimsoles]

Can I post this here?

Had a look through some of the other pages and couldn't see anything similar, so starting this off, don't know if ill get many replies but we'll see.

Basically a thread for non believers, skeptics and people who have left religion/ escaped religious cults and turned to atheism.
To chat, friendly respectable debate, and to ask questions. People of faith obviously also welcome!

Ha amazing! I wasn't raised in a religious house hold, but I wasn't raised with any critical thinking skills either, I had to learn those in my early twenties. I started on the late great Hitch, and James Randi got me questioning the lengths people will go to try and make something 'real'.
I moved onto Dickie Dawkins later on when my passion for biology led me to the selfish gene...the rest is history!

There is a lot of social pressure to conform when you are raised in religions circles. "Fake it 'til you make it", brings acceptance into friendship groups. I was definitely ostracized for not accepting the 'revealed truth', but then I was quite happy reading by myself, which also helped develop my critical thinking skills.

Oh, and I entirely agree with you. I will respect the individual (until they show themselves to be unworthy of it, at least), but the loony beliefs are entirely fair game.

I hope you are in a good place now Jamie

'Revealed truth' is that a Catholic principal? (have also heard similar in JW and Mormonism)

That's the thing about the 'truth', god reveals it to you personally. So the bible is irrelevant, facts are irrelevant, if you have 'felt' god then you have been touched by the holy spirit. Seems to occur quite a lot when singing in church.

Guess god never liked me enough to share his existence with me.

Guess god never liked me enough to share his existence with me.

Jesus Christ.

I see this time and time again in ex people of faith, particularly from ex pentecostal and evangelical sects. They say things like, 'everyone seemed to be touched by god in the whole room, I felt like I had to fake it to fit in' and the amazing thing is, instead of looking around and thinking 'wow these people are all just acting and this is crazy' because we know now how suggestive tactics and group hysteria work. But instead the person 'left out' blames themselves like something must be wrong with them!

Consider this- what if God is real? and what if hes sitting up there watching us all and laughing at the stupid stuff religious people do in churches and other places of worship (my neighbours do it in a fucking cinema). Its turns out his real test all along was, who is gullible enough to go along with what I said in the beginning? Who is really fretting about the ten commandments and the stunt I pulled with getting myself crucified for humankind's 'sins'. Turns out those of us who didn't fall for it- we are the ones hes hanging out with in the afterlife?
Its humorous to imagine, but at the same time, we can't disprove it!

Nothing is your fault, you just have enough integrity to question what you were believing and then the conviction to discard it.

Feel free to pm me if you need to talk!

I'm an atheist and I'm really struggling at the moment with a friendship that was ticking along well until religion and homosexuality came up. My Christian friend told me that he and his faith accept gay people into their church but only if they remain "celibate". This view point has shocked me as I naively assumed this would have been resolved long ago but the church. I don't understand how my friend cannot see that this is homophobic and an awful thing/seemingly very unchristian. Are there any denominations that accept gay people as people entitled to a private life and relationship?
I thought his religion was fairly benign until this came up but this I find hateful.

Which church is he a member of under? A lot of churches put up the pretense of being accepting and 'all welcome' but their true views become apparent when you attend the services. Many still think homosexuality is a choice, despite scientific evidence to the contrary.

I don't understand how my friend cannot see that this is homophobic and an awful thing/seemingly very unchristian

Don't for one moment assume that being Christian means that these people must be automatically moral and virtuous. The bible is very clear on homosexuality, so you could argue that the followers of Christianity who condemn homosexuality as a sin, are actually the ones doing it right.

I would ask him if any members of his church are 'out' homosexuals and how they are treated.

It's the usual cherry-picking that goes on.

I think most of the homophobic stuff comes from Leviticus (I can't be bothered to check), but then these homophobes then happily go about eating shellfish and wearing mix fibres, women wearing trousers etc., all of which come from the same source.

Hypocrites, the lot of them.

Should say "all of which are proscribed by the same source", or something like that.

Hello all. I've recently changed jobs and at my leaving drinks found out my colleague (a Jehovas Witness) did not believe in evolution as she 'couldn't believe we came from monkeys'. Her 'proof' was that other monkeys haven't evolved into people (!) I've never met anyone like that and thought creationism was rare in the UK - was quite shocked! Other people believing in a god doesn't really offend me, but this for some reason I took personally. Surely if people do believe they can find a way to square it with science at least - it's so upsetting.

I have been an atheist as long as I can remember and I am afraid that I have no respect for religion in general although the community and social stuff must be great for those iinvoled. Religion was just never on my agenda other than as stories and I just don't get faith.

Acubed

The bible is not compatible with science, it just isn't. You cant force evidence to fit in with what reflected in holy text, it is what it is.

My neighbour is an evangelical christian and reject evolution (but curiously not natural selection) he also believes above everything else that the earth is under 10000 years old. During our debates he quote the bible, and his collected research in the field of 'creationist science'

Wt first I thought he was joking, he absolutely fucking serious.

I suggest having a look at talkorigins.com, they have a comprehensive list of creationist claims and the evidence that debunks them, so you will be ready for your next meeting

Intelligent design is a stupid and half hearted concept.
The idea of have a god "steering" the process makes a mockery of the whole process.

Evolution is either random and uncontrolled or it isn't.

There is no halfway house.

Oooh, hello! Just found you in Active Threads.

I'm a recovered Christian - was raised Church of Scotland Presbyterian but baulked at confirmation time (usually happens as a teen or an adult in CofS, they like you to sign on in full knowledge of what you're doing, which I suppose is good). I spent a few years in wavering agnosticism, and I've been an atheist since I was about mid-20s.

I got my atheist rage on this week with "pray for Manchester" - was livid. My issue with "pray for" anything is that it is worse than doing nothing, because if you think you're taking action by praying for something, then you're less likely to take any actual concrete, real-world, effective action, because you've already "done something". Maddening.

I take issue with the requirement to respect people's beliefs, too. As Dawkins said (back in the day, before he went a bit nuts) - I respect their right to have their belief, but there is no requirement at all to respect the contents of their beliefs. Believe what you want, that is your prerogative, but equally my prerogative is to point out that it's a bit bonkers.

I am tickled by the idea expressed by the Christian poster above that atheists are atheists because we have misunderstood religion. Quite the opposite - I have actually read large chunks of the bible, probably more than many believers have. I'm getting it from the horse's mouth - or perhaps from the mouth of the talking donkey therein? (Numbers 22). I have read a lot of apologetics too, and I still remain unconvinced. Here's an illustration of why I will never be convinced: why hasn't God ever healed an amputee? Not ever, not once. Not with all the prayer in the world, Jesus couldn't do it, no healer ever has been able to do it, so what's up with that? What did amputees do that was so wrong? (there's a website exploring this question )

I live in France, and have never had any problem with my atheism here. Although it's actually quite a religious country, the fundamental principal of secularism (laïcité) is very much respected - your private beliefs are your private beliefs, but have little or no place in public discourse.

Anyway, I could go on all day, but will sign off for now with a recommendation - The Scathing Atheist podcast. Highly offensive on pretty much every level, but very, very funny

Welcome pooch ! 😃
Your post was absolutely fascinating to read and I couldn't put it better myself in places (pray for Manchester and amputees in particular).

I also don't like the automatic respect that religions seem to command either. Religions and its followers make many claims and its time those claims were properly refuted.

In my debates I ask questions like 'but why would god do x?' And they respond with something that is completely off the top of their heads, like its a truth.

thank you ollie

I'm with you on not thinking that religion should automatically command respect either. Far too many exceptions are made, socially and legally, for "sincerely held" religious belief- as if the sincerity of the belief tells you anything about its validity? As the kids say, just nope.

I didn't say organised religion can work with a science, but someone could believe that some sort of god created the Big Bang. I don't believe this, just saying I think you can be religious and scientific.

but someone could believe that some sort of god created the Big Bang

How is that scientific?
Just because someone might take a scientific theory under scrutiny like the big bang, and crowbar some kind of deity into it, doesn't mean they are both religious and scientific- it means they are trying to find god in as many areas of science as they can because they think it will give them credibility in some way.

I don't think anybody would say I was a very 'scientifically' minded person if I said I believed Tinkerbell was responsible for the big bang.

I remember in your first post you said this:
Surely if people do believe they can find a way to square it with science at least

I find that quite contemptible, science is closing the gaps previously filled by faith in god (lets say the god of the abrahamic religions for the sake of argument). It usually always collapses to a 'God did it' fallacious argument- thats not squaring anything.

I mean no disrespect cubed just airing my views.

For me Ollie it was just educating myself on the origin of the universe, evolution etc. and also from reading the bible. (I had a very strong faith for 30 plus years but never really read the bible)

It's so obvious to me now that people believed in a godlike entity (in ancient times) as an attempt at making sense of things that they didn't comprehend. It's quite understandable.

I have no problem with people having faith in god. Having faith can be comforting for some people. I have a problem with some aspects of religion though.

The originator of the Big Bang theory was a Catholic priest. He was both religious and scientific.

Science is trying to understand how the universe works and the laws of nature. I personally don't believe in god, but people might believe (which is different than 'knowing') or think that some sort of conscious force might have created the universe. The theory of god is untestable so it can only ever be a theory or a belief. A lot of theoretical physicists get to the point where things get so weird they think higher powers might be in play. Einstein was famously religious. There are some modern theories which think our universe may be an elaborate AI simulation - that might mean that whoever designed the computer program is our 'conscious creator' or god.

Einstein was famously religious.

Uh-uh! He was definitely not religious. He even got a bit pissed off with people claiming that while he was alive.

Needed to placemark

On the festival of zombie jesus (if something dies and comes back to life its a zombie right?) are we meant throw the chocolate eggs at zombie jesus to kill him off as in silver bullets for werewolves? Or do we eat the chocolate eggs to ward off zombie jesus like garlic and vampires?

Search as hard as I might the bible holds no clear instructions

One of his famous quotes is 'god does not play dice with the universe' - did he not believe in god then? Let me google...I really thought he was, always mentioned in science docs