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Original poster

Trouble integrating non christian siblings!

78 replies

artyjoe · 28/06/2004 13:30

I have a few months before this becomes a huge problem but basically I am due to have my first child in January. My partner already has a daughter of 9. The childs mother is an athiest who believes anyone who belives in God/religion has been brainwashed. The problem...

I would like to take my child to church on a Sunday and as DP's DD is with us every other Sunday it is only practical that she comes with us. They have over 100 children who do various activities while the adults are in church, although obviously these will be based around Jesus I'm sure.

The child has gone home to her mum this weekend and said she has to start going to church and all hell has broken loose. My main issue is that I want to go to church as a family unit to create a sense of community for my child. I do not think our family unit should be split between those who do and don't go to church as DD is only 9 my DP would have to stay behind with her, and so my child will miss out.

Also, if her mother believes all christians are brainwashed then what impact is this likely to have on the relationship between DD and her brother/sister who will be brought up with christian values until they are old enough for themself to decide what religion, if any,they wish to follow.

Any ideas? Any advice?

OP posts:

aloha · 28/06/2004 15:26

And with a ten year gap, I think it is extremely unlikely that these children will argue about anything at all. By the time your baby is old enough to argue about religion your stepdaughter will have left home! I don't think 16 year olds spend a lot of time arguing about relgion with six year olds, frankly.

aloha · 28/06/2004 15:31

And yes, of course you can go to Church if you want, and take your own child as often as you want. The only person you can't take is someone else's child against the wishes of her mother. That's hardly unreasonable IMO.
Actually, my mum took ds to a carol service at Christmas to show him the candles and hear the singing. I was OK about that because I was informed and agreed in advance and because I feel secure that he won't get brainwashed about it. I would be happy for him to visit a mosque or temple too. What would upset me, and would upset this girls mother is being taken to Church with the express purpose of instilling Christian beliefs.

Original poster

artyjoe · 28/06/2004 15:32

wickedwaterwitch, surely now is exactly the time to make these decisions before my child is born and while SDD is protected from knowing we are not in agreement with each other?

Aloha,..."After three years I still think it is extremely important that my husband and his daughter have some private time together." .. As do I. Although I didn't see SDD for a year my DH still saw his daughter every other weekend as usual, but in another location. As already mentioned, my DH and DD already spend a lot of 'private' time together which will not change when my child arrives.

OP posts:

Original poster

artyjoe · 28/06/2004 15:36

Aloha... "is being taken to Church with the express purpose of instilling Christian beliefs"... I don't believe at any point i mentioned instilling SDD with Christian beliefs, I believe I said taking part in activities and feeling a sense of community.

OP posts:

WideWebWitch · 28/06/2004 15:40

Artyjoe but why is it important now? You can go now, and when your baby's born you and dh and the baby can go every other weekend, or every day of the week if you want to. I don't see why it has to be dealt with now (although you're right, it does need to be addressed I suppose) the baby won't even be here until January. Surely SD isn't protected from knowing you're not in agreement, didn't she go home and tellher mum? Or do you mean you and dh don't agree?

Hulababy · 28/06/2004 15:41

artyjoe - I have to agree with the others here. If your SD's mother has stated that she does not want her daughter to go to church you just have to go with it. It is her perogative I'm afraid, and you have to go by it regardless of your own wishes or motives (community, religious beliefs or whatever).

aloha · 28/06/2004 15:41

Oh come on, you said you want your child to be a Christian! Even if you don't care if your stepdaughter is a Christian at all, that is the whole point of going to Church. I'll say it again, of course you can go to Church and take your own child - it's a free country.

Tissy · 28/06/2004 15:46

artyjoe, you clearly have a very difficult relationship with your dh's ex. I was surprised that you didn't see your sd at all for a year, just because her mother didn't approve of your dog? Did your dh meet sd on neutral ground or did he go to their house? Couldn't you have left the dog at home, and gone with him? I don't mean that to sound judgemental, i'm just curious.

I was in a similar situation to you, in that my dh had a 9 yr old ds when we married, but my dd was born 5 years later. Whether you plan it or not, your sd will get less exclusive time with her father after the baby arrives. You would be amazed at how much attention from both parents one tiny little scrap can command. My dh was called all sorts of names by his ex when he had to abandon plans to travel to his son's school concert, because he wasn't sure that I could cope overnight with dd on my own (I had PND, was tired and not eating, really needed the support).

What I'm trying to say is that I'd be inclined to attempt to include your sd as much as possible in family life, without altering that life any more than it has been altered already. She will need as much continuity as you can give her, and changing the routine by starting to go to Church won't help her feel part of the family.

Sorry, don't know if this is making much sense, but we have been through this sort of situation, and have come out the other side.

Original poster

artyjoe · 28/06/2004 15:47

Aloha,I didn't say I wanted my child to be a christian, I said i wanted her/him to be brought up with christian values until they are old enough for themself to decide what religion if any they wish to follow.

Hulababy, out of interest, does the fathers 'wishes' not count in these kind of circumstances?

OP posts:

aloha · 28/06/2004 15:49

Wasn't part of the problem that the stepdaughter was terrified of the dog - there was a reference to 'screaming fits' or did I misread that?

Toothache · 28/06/2004 15:49

Artyjoe - What are the Fathers values in allof this??? I can only see yours here, but perhaps I haven't read all the posts properly.

I have to agree with those who have said this is wrong. You are persuing something that is going to be more destructive in the long run. Why?????????????????????????????????????????

aloha · 28/06/2004 15:50

artyjoe, yes the father's wishes do count, but in this case it isn't a case of her father being desperate to take her to church, is it? He's not going now, he's not been before, so it clearly isn't a big issue for him.

Original poster

artyjoe · 28/06/2004 15:53

Tissy..."Couldn't you have left the dog at home, and gone with him?" And let the dog starve for the weekend!

I had responsibilities before meeting my DH as did he before meeting me, he met his DH on neutral ground. There were lots of issues, not only the dog, size of house too small, I was a smoker at the time (although never smoked indoors or around SDD), SDD got a pair of leggings muddy due to playing in the garden with me and DH (!) basically I breathed, which was a real issue for his ex, and still is...For some reason I feel I should point out that they were divorced 2 years before I met DH!

OP posts:

Toothache · 28/06/2004 15:55

Artyjoe - You haven't mentioned what your DH wants?

aloha · 28/06/2004 15:55

Er, but you posted: "Not having her come to church with the entire family so she can spend extra time with her dad, doesn't deal with the issue of having a sibling that is a Christian."
And this:
"My fear is that she will now try and stop us seeing DD again, but I really don't want to change what I had planned for my own child so that we can keep seeing DD"

I have tried to give you advice based on my experience in a similar situation (complete with unfriendly mother). I have even apologised if I misunderstood you, but tbh, I don't think I am interested in taking this further. You don't even appear to be religious, so now I am totally at a loss as to why you are so keen to follow a course of action that could have such disastrous consequences. If you really want to go to Church then please take Hulababy's advice.

Hulababy · 28/06/2004 15:57

Yes I do think the father's wishes count but in that case it is for your DP and your SD's mother to sit down and discuss it. And for them to come up with a solution. But I guess at the end of the day your SD lives with her mother and that generally means that the other will end up getting the final say.

What does your DP think? Is he concerned about all this? Has ihe discussed it at all with your SD's mother? Is there no common ground on which to compromise?

Hulababy · 28/06/2004 16:01

I am intrigued by your response to Tissy:

"Couldn't you have left the dog at home, and gone with him?" And let the dog starve for the weekend!

Was there really nothing you could have done to ensure that you got to meet up with your SD? I am sure you don't mean to sound this way but it really does read as though your dog was more important to you than your SD Neighbours? Family? Friends? Could these have not been used to help with the dog situation?

Anyway completely off track and I was just a bit suprised, that's all. Probably much different a situation than it reads.

Hulababy · 28/06/2004 16:03

Sorry - just read further. There were obviously far more problematic issues at the time. Sorry.

gothicmama · 28/06/2004 16:03

Arty joe you do not need church to have christian values it is how you live andlove every day that counts - if going to church is important to you as a person (without dp or sdd or db) then go - you could then perhaps leave your dp with both his children for sometime on every other Sunday- In our house we do not do religion it is to devisive (sp) as we are all different beliefs merged together into a beautiful rainbow of niceness why ruin that by going to a church, temple etc. or in the atheists case any where else.

Tissy · 28/06/2004 16:11

artyjoe, I didn't realise that your dh's neutral ground visits were for a whole weekend- otherwise I wouldn't have suggested that you leave your poor dog alone!

DSS used to come to us from school most Friday nights and stay with us till Moday morning (he went to the village school, btw, not boarding school). He used to arrive with a huge bag of dirty washing for us to do! Apparently the rationale behind that was that dh got the "family" washing machine when they split. When we asked if ex had a machine, of course the answer was "yes", she just didn't see why she should spend her weekends doing his washing, so we had to! Much as I am irritated by the many stupid and demanding things that ex has said/ done over the years, I have found that it is by far easier in the long run not to argue. Rant and rave in private if you like, but go along with what she wants, to keep the peace. (Another example- ex refuses to let SS travel an hour on the train between our towns; there are no changes, he is nearly 16 and well over 6 feet tall. Dh therefore has to drive for over 2 hours each way to pick him up/ take him home ).

I hope you find a peaceful way through this situation, whatever path you choose.

Original poster

artyjoe · 28/06/2004 16:17

Aloha,..you are correct, I should have posted 'perceived to be a Christian by SDD's mother' rather than 'is a christian', this was my mistake. I have stated several times that I am no longer going to take this any further due to some of the responses I hadn't anticipated on this thread...and God help me if I did appear to be religious in this thread!!!

Hulababy, unfortunately DH and the ex have no common ground anymore. What she says goes, and he finds that very frustrating at times as his opinion isn't taken into account, even down to whether she has baked beans or sweetcorn when she has dinner with us.

OP posts:

Hulababy · 28/06/2004 16:24

That is very sad artyjoe, especially for your SD. She must not like being stuck in the middle at all

Original poster

artyjoe · 28/06/2004 16:35

gothicmama...we are all different beliefs merged together into a beautiful rainbow of niceness ...

What a lovely image. I hope one day to be able to say the same about our family

OP posts:

aloha · 28/06/2004 16:57

Look, I really didn't intend to come back to this, but I do sympathise with the impossibly unreasonable ex bit. We've had all the dietary restrictions stuff too and to be absolutely frank, we do say to our stepdaughter, look if we have this (ie pizza, not poison), you might not want to tell your mum. I know it's not perfect or ideal but it smooths over the rows. I do think a big thing like religion is totally different though, and it's really not much of a compromise to go to church as a family on alternate Sundays and to take your baby on your own the other weeks, while your dh takes his daughter to the pictures or the park or whatever.

aloha · 28/06/2004 16:58

actually I never say anything like this - not my place - but my dh does.

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