Trouble integrating non christian siblings!

[artyjoe]

I have a few months before this becomes a huge problem but basically I am due to have my first child in January. My partner already has a daughter of 9. The childs mother is an athiest who believes anyone who belives in God/religion has been brainwashed. The problem...

I would like to take my child to church on a Sunday and as DP's DD is with us every other Sunday it is only practical that she comes with us. They have over 100 children who do various activities while the adults are in church, although obviously these will be based around Jesus I'm sure.

The child has gone home to her mum this weekend and said she has to start going to church and all hell has broken loose. My main issue is that I want to go to church as a family unit to create a sense of community for my child. I do not think our family unit should be split between those who do and don't go to church as DD is only 9 my DP would have to stay behind with her, and so my child will miss out.

Also, if her mother believes all christians are brainwashed then what impact is this likely to have on the relationship between DD and her brother/sister who will be brought up with christian values until they are old enough for themself to decide what religion, if any,they wish to follow.

Any ideas? Any advice?

Message withdrawn

Hi artyjoe

That's a tough one

I know what you mean about the brainwashing thing. No one in my family are Christians or even church goers so when I became a Christian (at 13) it was a real struggle to convince my family that I hadn't joined a cult. I'm now 28 and finally it's dawned on my mum and dad that it wasn't a phase. We've also had many. many discussions and arguments since where I've held my ground and they've realised that I do genuinely believe, rather than being swept along by other people. I wasn't allowed to go to church until I was 18.

Anyway, all that I'm trying to say (I think) is that if you stand up for what you believe to be the truth, but do it "with gentleness and respect" (I think that's in the Bible in Peter somewhere), then your partner's daughter's mum will not be able to fault you. Try to be loving in all your dealings with her so that slowly she'll realise that this is a lifestyle choice which can only have a positive influence on her daughter.

Even if her daughter attends church, she has a mind of her own even at 9 and is unlikely to be caught up in something just because her dad and partner are involved. Your DP's dd won't suddenly believe in God just because you go to church on a Sunday - being a Christian is so much more than that. She may well be encouraged to explore Christianity by going to Sunday school or other events - but that's her choice.

But your partner's daughter will learn about the beliefs of others and a knowledge and understanding of other people's beliefs can only lead to tolerance and respect. They're surely attributes that her mother would want to instil in her daughter?

I agree with you that going to church as a family is a special thing and you should try to worship together as much as possible.

The brainwashing argument to me sounds a bit unthought out and as if the mum is clutching at straws. Does she really understand what Christians believe? Is it worth getting your DP to talk the issues of church over with her?

all the best

Beat me to it! It seems a very difficult situation, I can see both sides and I feel sorry for your stepDD as she is well and truly stuck in the middle. I agree with Podmog, 9 is definitely old enough to make her own decision whether or not to go. I take it you aren't currently attending church? So, why not start off going alternate weekends?

As to the point your child will 'miss out', I'm not trying to be mean, but your stepDD 'misses out' on her father a lot more. I think your DS/D to be will be fine to do without every other sunday. With a new sibling around it might be good for her to have time alone with her Dad?

I hope you work things out.

message withdrawn

Podmog - DD is extremely confused because her mother has said 'you are not allowed to be religious', 'you are not allowed to be a christian'. This weekend we were at a carnival and there was a big red bus giving away free sweeties so she jumped on and was in there for 20 minutes...only for us to shortly realise it was a bus run by the church. She did a quiz and got 8 answers correct and was very pleased, she also picked up a free video about jesus, without discussing it with us. She watched it on her own sunday morning while we were still in bed, and was pleased that she now knew the answers to the two questions she didn't know in the quiz on the bus. I asked if she'd like to go to the Sunday school and her instant response was 'I'm not a Christian, mum won't let me'.

muddaofsurburbia - Unfortunately the mother is able to cause huge problems with us if she's not happy with anything our end. We went a year where DP couldn't bring DD to our house as the mother didn't agree with my having a dog...and therefore DD didn't agree either so had screaming fits every time she came to us until we gave up. This only changed when the mother got a new boyfriend and needed to offload DD more often!

My fear is that she will now try and stop us seeing DD again, but I really don't want to change what I had planned for my own child so that we can keep seeing DD, on no one elses terms but the mothers. It really is a shame but she is one of those mothers who are quite happy to 'poison' the child to get what she wants.

My main concern is the response to DD's brother/sister as she has been so excited about the prospect of a brother/sister, it will be sad if this changes within the next two weeks

How does your partner feel about it? Is he a regular chuchgoer at the moment? If so then I can't see why it would be such a problem, but you kind of imply that this is all going to start when your baby is born, which sounds a bit odd. It would be good if your step-dd's mother was fine about it, but as she's not it seems to be putting your sdd in a very difficult situation. If I was her mother I would have no objection, but on the other hand if someone was planning to take my child to a Mormon church (for example) every weekend I would definitely have strong feelings, so I think you do have to respect her views to some extent.

Twiglett...We can't switch visits as we've only just got visitation again after a year of DD not able to come to my house due to the mother causing so many problems. We now have her every other weekend from Friday afternoon to Sunday afternoon, so she will be with us every other sunday...unless this doesn't get resolved of course.

Lydialemon... We have managed to (finally) have DD as an integral part of our family unit, to split it up is not something I would want to do after trying so hard to make us a solid unit. DD has plenty of time alone with her dad over the two days she is with us. Not having her come to church with the entire family so she can spend extra time with her dad, doesn't deal with the issue of having a sibling that is a Christian, and doesn't teach any form of understanding or give her that sense of community that my child will hopefully learn...but then maybe I am naieve as I am not a mother yet.

If a stepmother took my son to church I would stop my son from going. I think it's totally out of order. And I speak as both a mother and a stepmother myself. And no, I don't think a stepmother has the right to overrule the strongly held moral beliefs of a child's mother. You are just begging for trouble IMO. This is a child we are talking about here. There are people out there who think religion is immoral superstition and we wish to protect our children from what we believe to be its wicked and pernicious influence. As for 'poisoning their minds' I haappen to think that religion is a way of poisoning innocent children's minds. Do you want to alienate this child from her father because that is what you will achieve if you insist on 'brainwashing' her your way in direct defiance of her mother's beliefs. Would you insist on taking her to church if she was Jewish or Muslim? Would you be happy if your husband remarried and his new wife wanted to take your kids to the Mosque every week, or to pagan rituals? Atheists can beleive every bit as strongly and morally as those with religious beliefs you know.

And yes, what do you do now? I presume you don't take her to church every sunday so I also presume your husband doesn't go. I fail to see why this should have to change. If you do alienate your stepdaughter from her father and totally defy your stepdaughter's mother, it will do much more to divide your family that having people in it with different beliefs.

tamum, we tried church once before with SDD and she enjoyed it but the mother kicked up such a huge fuss that it was one of the reasons why we haven't seen SDD for such a long time. We have only recently moved home and we haven't instigated church again yet as we wanted SDD to be completely settled into the new environment and routine before attempting again. We also thought if we tied it in with her baby brother/sister she might be more open to it...obviously we forgot about the mum

I have to say that I find your hints that either she comes to church with you or that's that and she doesn't see her father again pretty disturbing. I'm sure you don't mean it but you sound pretty cavalier about it.

I don't understand why you are trying to brainwash someone else's child. This will just end in tears.

aloha - Of course you are right, if a step mother was to take my child to church I too would be unhappy with that, only this isn't about the wicked step mother taking SDD to church, this is about the childs father & stepmother wanting to integrate SDD completely into our family.

I am glad you have responded as I now know what to expect from the mother later today. How should I expect the SDD to react to her sibling if the mother has your views on the churches 'wicked and pernicious influence'?

tamum, you have misread what I wrote. It will not be my decision if SDD's visits change because of this, it will be the mothers.

message withdrawn

If you stop banging on about Christianity and stop putting that poor girl in the middle and basically forcing her to defy her mother then I'm sure she will be fine. Your child will be a baby, for heavens sake - she won't be going on about God. How on earth can it help relations between the siblings if you keep this up?
Would you be OK if another woman was taking your children to pagan rituals? I think not.
People in families can perfectly well have different beliefs on everything including politics, religion, hunting....anything.. and still love each other. But IMO no stepmother has the right to defy a child's mother's own deeply held beliefs and put a child in the middle. She's not yours, you know. I am a stepmother and I wouldn't DREAM of doing anything like this. I think my husband's relationship iwth his daughter is absolutely vital.

I should point out that the reason we want SDD to be part of our Sunday activities is that we don't want one child to appear to be treated any different from the other and both my DP and I feel it would be a lovely environment to take the children to.

My main concern hasn't been answered here which is the repercussions of having one child christian and the other very anti-christians.

Has anyone had any experience of this?

Artyjoe, if you insist on taking her to church knowing that her mother will refuse this, then yes, I am afraid you will be ripping the heart out of your new family. I think you should respect the fact that this girl was here before you came along. What on earth does your partner think of this state of affairs? Is he happy to not see his daughter again?

I haven't misread anything artyjoe. You are going into this with your eyes wide open, knowing that your decision is likely to destroy your partner's relationship with his daughter. Unchristian in the extreme in my view I'm afraid. I'm staggered your partner is going along with this, and feel very sorry for your step dd.

No-one is answering your question because the issue won't exist if you persist in this. There will be no relationship to be affected.

Message withdrawn

aloha has been (characteristically) blunt, but I do agree that you are asking for trouble. If you currently go to Church on your own, leaving dh behind with his daughter, then I don't see why you can't go to Church with your new baby, and leave dh and daughter home as you are doing now. If you don't currently go to church, then why not, why leave it till the baby is born? Going to church doesn't have to be a family experience, and there are plenty of families who have 2 religions , or 1 atheist and one religious parent.

I think your step daughter's mother does have a right to have a say in whether she goes to Church or not, but so does your husband; if he feels strongly about it, then he should be arguing it out with his ex-wife. Maybe keeping the peace and seeing his daughter is more important to him than attending Church?

There are other ways you can demonstrate to your dd the benefits of being a Christian, without actually going to Church, I would let this lie!

aloha, I have no idea how you have managed to draw such conclusions about me as a human being from what I have written here.

.."no stepmother has the right to defy a child's mother's own deeply held beliefs and put a child in the middle. She's not yours, you know." Does the father not get a say? Of course the child does not know this is going on.

.."I think my husband's relationship iwth his daughter is absolutely vital."... I think my DP's relationship with both of his children is vital.

Why not go to church every other week? Why jeopardise your dp's relationship with his dd if it has only just started being rebuilt? You can't force integration - as a partner in a 'mixed marriage' that is something with which I am painfully familiar. Forcing things would jeoparise you and your baby's relationship with her as well. Why not take the easy road, and gradually let things have the chance to change?

But they will already be treated very differently. One lives with you, one doesn't. One will be a baby, the other an older child. My little boy is too young to go the cinema yet we don't refuse to take his 12year old sister because he's too young - so either I stay at home with him while my stepdaughter and her dad go to see Shrek, or we all go and my mum babysits. We are a very united family despite this! Is taking this child to church - once - really worth alienating your partner from his own flesh and blood for?