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Original poster

Trouble integrating non christian siblings!

78 replies

artyjoe · 28/06/2004 13:30

I have a few months before this becomes a huge problem but basically I am due to have my first child in January. My partner already has a daughter of 9. The childs mother is an athiest who believes anyone who belives in God/religion has been brainwashed. The problem...

I would like to take my child to church on a Sunday and as DP's DD is with us every other Sunday it is only practical that she comes with us. They have over 100 children who do various activities while the adults are in church, although obviously these will be based around Jesus I'm sure.

The child has gone home to her mum this weekend and said she has to start going to church and all hell has broken loose. My main issue is that I want to go to church as a family unit to create a sense of community for my child. I do not think our family unit should be split between those who do and don't go to church as DD is only 9 my DP would have to stay behind with her, and so my child will miss out.

Also, if her mother believes all christians are brainwashed then what impact is this likely to have on the relationship between DD and her brother/sister who will be brought up with christian values until they are old enough for themself to decide what religion, if any,they wish to follow.

Any ideas? Any advice?

OP posts:
aloha · 28/06/2004 14:35

You are planning to put this child right in the middle. You know perfectly well that if you take her to church, despite knowing her mother's clearly expressed and firmly held moral beliefs, your risk her not being allowed to come again. This girl is nine and she clearly already knows that this church business is something her mother disapproves of, so why are you pushing it. You say you know the probable consequences, yet you won't let it go. She isn't yours. If she was, you could take her to church every single day and twice on Sundays, but she's not. And what does her father think?

aloha · 28/06/2004 14:40

As for thinking his relationship with both his children is vital - what's that about? If you take this kid to church it is quite likely he won't see his daughter any more. How is that good for her, for him or for her yet to be born sibling? Staying at home with his daughter on Sunday mornings won't mean he has no relationship with his future child with you! He can put your child to bed for 365 nights a year. At the very most he will do the same for his other child a mere 52 nights a year. And to risk making it less is very wrong IMO.

lisalisa · 28/06/2004 14:41

Message withdrawn

Original poster
artyjoe · 28/06/2004 14:46

lisalisa & tissy, thank you so much for your insightful comments.

It has been a real eye-opener posting this message and has given us plenty to think about and discuss this evening.

OP posts:
Chandra · 28/06/2004 14:47

I believe that all is a matter of tolerance. Trying to force the things to take the girl to church, or trying to force her to stay out of it are equally damaging. If your DP is a Christain and want this then he should talk to Ex and agree about a position that is equally convenient for both.

Chandra · 28/06/2004 14:49

lisalisa suggestion is great!

aloha · 28/06/2004 14:49

But hey, what would I know? I've only been a stepmother for six years and have a very happy, well integrated set up with lots of love in it and two siblings who love each other and for whom the issue of religion has never occurred. Your child isn't even born yet! He/she won't even notice they are at church for months and months. They will be perfectly used to doing things without their big sister - after all, they won't exactly have similar interests with a ten year gap (same as between my son and his sister by coincidence). I know how much my son gets out of his sibling relationship and would feel dreadful if he didn't have it because of something I did.

prettycandles · 28/06/2004 14:51

When your baby is born, stepdd will have even less time with her father, so having an occasional morning with him all to herself while you and d? go to church could actually a good thing for the whole family.

I understand that you want to start as you mean to go on, but you've got a lifetime ahead of you, and you have to realise that what seems like a good idea now may turn out to be totally useless when situations change. And nothing changes a situation like having a baby! It's going to be a very stressful time for all of you, so take the easy road and reduce the stress...you can always change things later.

Hulababy · 28/06/2004 14:52

I haven't read all of the messages but i did wonder if one solution could be to go to church as a family unit - you, DP and your baby - every other Sunday, and the just you and your baby the Sunday your SD visits. This also will allow your partner and his daughter some individual time too.

As I say I haven't had chance to read the rest so apologise if repeating.

Chandra · 28/06/2004 14:55

Aloha? is it really you? [need a suspecting emoticon]

twiglett · 28/06/2004 14:56

message withdrawn

aloha · 28/06/2004 15:01

Yup, that was me. I am very proud of the kind of family we have managed to make. I am a very strong atheist and what riled me was the blithe assumption that whatever atheists beleive is 'brainwashing' etc without even considering that exactly the same accusation could be made the other way around. I also thought that it might be eye-opening to hear from a stepmother who thinks that it is wrong for a stepmother to go against a mother's strong beliefs. My stepdaughter's stepfather (whew!) is Jewish. Her siblings are being raised as Jewish-ish (iykwim) and she is not. It causes NO problems AT ALL! And this is because nobody is making it a problem.

Original poster
artyjoe · 28/06/2004 15:07

Pretty candles, you are absolutely right.

I am so glad I posted this now rather than in six months when the situation was upon us and we had cemented our ideas. Me and Dh were going to sit down this evening and discuss how to move ahead/options etc, but we would never have thought of half of the opinions that have been shared here.

aloha, you are very fortunate to be a mother and a step mother, I have been a step mother for 3 years and have been trying for a child for 9 years and have only just got pregnant so yes, you have more experience than I do. However, I'm sure you could have got your point across without assuming I'm out to destroy relationships and wreak havoc for the fun of it...reading some of your comments I really don't recognise the person you are talking about, I certainly can't find her in the words I have posted.

OP posts:
Original poster
artyjoe · 28/06/2004 15:08

twiglett, after all the comments that I've read here I don't think we'll go to church, full stop.

OP posts:
Hulababy · 28/06/2004 15:11

artyjoe - if church is so important to you I feel sad that you will make a rash decision to not take your own baby to church at all. I am not a church goer at all but it des sadden me that you will throw away your own wishes over this. Are you sure that there is no other compromise that will work for your family?

Original poster
artyjoe · 28/06/2004 15:11

aloha, I don't believe I was slanting athiests when I pointed out that SDD's mother thinks 'anyone who belives in God/religion has been brainwashed', I was simply stating a fact of her beliefs.

OP posts:
twiglett · 28/06/2004 15:11

message withdrawn

Tissy · 28/06/2004 15:12

artyjoe, that would be a shame. If you want to go to Church, do it for yourself, do it now- don't wait till the baby arrives- you'll be too busy trying to get some sleep in the first few months!

Original poster
artyjoe · 28/06/2004 15:15

If religion can cause so much venom then I don't think it is something I wish to embrace.

OP posts:
Original poster
artyjoe · 28/06/2004 15:17

Tissy, I do not need to go to Church to give thanks for what I have, I am thankful everyday for the life I hold inside me.

OP posts:
bran · 28/06/2004 15:18

artyjoe I think you might be over-estimating the likelihood of your child and your stepd having a religious disagreement - I think they are much more likely to argue about who broke who's toy when they weren't supposed to touch it, or who took the last biscuit. My DH is Christian and I'm an atheist, but while we've argued about many things we've never argued about religion. I wonder if, sub-consciously, you're worried that if your stepd is brought up atheist that she might divert your child from Christianity? If so the only thing you can do is teach your child well and trust him/her to make the right decision, the same as if you didn't have a stepd.

aloha · 28/06/2004 15:19

I'm not certainly the only person on here who thought you came across as pretty cavalier as to the effect your plan to take this girl to church (in defiance of her mother) might have on future visitation. If that was the wrong impression, then I am sorry. And if this thread has caused you to rethink then I'm very glad. No matter how excited your stepdaughter is about the new baby, this will be hard time for her. It will rub her nose in it about how much less time she gets to spend with her dad than the new baby. She might feel less loved. She might feel jealous, and fear that because she isn't with her dad very much the new baby will be loved more than she is. After three years I still think it is extremely important that my husband and his daughter have some private time together. Remember the 365 nights versus 52 nights thing. It is not pushing your child out to let this girl have Sunday mornings exclusively with her dad.

prettycandles · 28/06/2004 15:20

Please don't give up on going to church if it is important to you! Just recognise that it is not the be-all and end-all of family life.

Tissy · 28/06/2004 15:24

artyjoe, calm down , and think about why you wanted to go to Church in the first place. Even aloha isn't saying that you shouldn't go, just that you shouldn't take your SD if her mother doesn't want it. You can still be a Christian, even if your SD isn't and who knows? Later on, she may want to go with you, and be able to explain that to her mother.

All religions inflame passions both for and against, and both religious and atheist people can be intolerant. I don't think aloha (or anyone else) was being venomous, just forthright in explaining her strongly held views.

WideWebWitch · 28/06/2004 15:25

I agree with aloha. My ex husband is Hindu and his mother (ex MIL) wanted to take ds to temple sometimes when he was very young. She wanted him to take part in some sort of religious ceremony too (like a christian christening) but I objected so she didn't. When he got a bit older I decided I didn't mind if he went sometimes, just as I don't mind if he goes to church sometimes with school BUT with the big proviso that he knows I don't believe any of it. I've told him that he might like to find out what different religions have to say about things so he can make up his own mind when he is older. I would be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS if my ex MIL (my ex dh agrees with me btw, I am not in disagreement with him about this) had ever taken my son to temple against my express wishes. Ditto if my ex remarried and his new wife decided ds had to take part in any religious ceremony or worship I hadn't agreed to. I'd be equally furious if my own mother decided to take him to church - it's just not on IMO. Your own child won't need the 'sense of community' you talk about for a long time so I don't see why this issue has to be forced to its crisis now tbh.

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