That marriage can only be between a man and a woman.

[OneHumanFamily]

The House Of Bishops Report proposes no change to ecclesiastical law or to the Church of England’s existing doctrinal position on marriage and sexual relationships. The Report also says that the Church needs to repent for homophobic attitudes. Anglicanism has always been a contested faith: Will homosexuality eventually be accepted?

www.churchofengland.org/media/3863472/gs-2055-marriage-and-same-sex-relationships-after-the-shared-conversations-report-from-the-house-of-bishops.pdf

You cannot ask people who think marriage is between a man and a woman to go against, what they perceive as, God's wishes and marry two men. Why should anyone think you should force people to do that?

Are you terminally stupid? Do you not have any compassion at all? Do not have a soul?

and he had nothing to lose because he got a good payment,

Stephen Hawkin went from shitting in his nappy to grappling with string theory within 25 years. There's no reason God couldn't have educated people quicker out of the barbaric OT laws. Instead, he chose to enshrined it in the bible as thereby tie himself to an era

Stephen Hawkin went from shitting in his nappy to grappling with string theory within 25 years. There's no reason God couldn't have educated people quicker out of the barbaric OT laws.

I must say I think your reference to Stephen Hawkin is in pretty poor taste tbh.

God did education by giving them laws to follow. If you think about it, had they been obeying just the 10 commandments (much less the other laws) then they'd have NOT been dissatisfied and trampled on other people to get what they wanted, and the world would have been a much more civilised place.

But they refused to listen.

They still do.

God did not educate anyone or anything, as god is a figment of your imagination.

If you want evidence of this, please look at the combined evidence of palaeontology (which shows us the fossil records) Geology (which shows us the dynamics of the earth with plate tectonics) Physics (both macro based general and special relativity and sub atomic quantum mechanics and the red shift of light confirming an expanding universe ), chemistry (including carbon dating ), evolutionary biology (Darwin's Narural selection and Dawkin the blind watchmaker ) mathematics including Newton's Principia Mathmatica which shows us the motion of the planets just to name a few.

I appreciate that if you have been spoon fed nonsense that an invisible sky man did everything as the truth then it's hard to let go, but ffs just look at the evidence for and against.

Of course, if anyone can show even one, just one shred of evidence for a Devine beating which stands scientific scrutiny then I will eat my words, although somehow I can't see it.

So Gay people, get married if you want, it's your right.

The theory of evolution proves God doesn't exist?

That's a new one on me!

Tbh Its all very well us debating it and making decisions, but ultimately it'll be down to him on the big day. I have no issue with people going through the whole marriage thing, whatever sexuality they are, as long as they are aware that it won't be recognised in heaven. Its a bit of a sham really, but so are a lot of marriages these days. I think its one part of huge picture, you won't go to hell for it.

Why is it that people feel the need to attack or use language that creates conflict and lacks respect when discussing religion. Personally for me it reduces their argument and makes them look incredibly immature.

I must say I think your reference to Stephen Hawkin is in pretty poor taste tbh.

It was not a reference in any way to his MND, but to his towering intellect. That he went from a newborn to the greatest mind in his field within a few short years.

God did education by giving them laws to follow.

Well I hope Ofsted put him into special measures if that was his idea of an education. Education is about thinking, not blind obedience. It's about engaging your reasoning skills, not yielding to to what someone thinks you should think. I'm really struggling to see god's laws, in any way, as an education.

Going back to what I said about Hawkin; humans were capable of giving him the education he needed to get where he is now, surely god should be superior to that?

Everything we have learnt is through trial and error. But god knew about bacteria so he could have just taught us at the beginning. He could have explained how to make antibiotics which would have saved a tonne of lives.

He could have taught us how to heal leprosy instead of telling us to cut pigeons in half and smear their innards over the entrance of the sick person's house.

It just makes god look very very silly.

as long as they are aware that it won't be recognised in heaven

By whom? So how does this non-recognition play out in the hereafter?

Say Maggie and Betty were married on earth. The both die and happened to have been born in a time and place where the culture happened to believe the right god (out of all the other places and times that had the wrong god).

So they meet in heaven. What next? Does god tell them to keep apart?

*the world would have been a much more civilised place.

But they refused to listen.

They still do.*

So how come we know from the fossil record that we are becoming more peaceable. We are killing each other less as time moves forward.

Watch This

First off, regarding rape. The culture of the day was that childless women who had lost their virginity, or widows at all, actually, had less rights than the women who were unmarried virgins. By the way, they didn't have many rights either, and so can you imagine the state you would have found yourself in if you were lower that than, socially?

But god could have educated them out of their bigotry. He could have shown them that it's no one's business if people choose to have consenting sex and that it's unacceptable to treat men and women differently. Are there laws in the OT about men being virgins on their wedding day? He could have taught them about STD's and birth control. All the things we had to find out for ourselves.

God never said it was ok to rape

The following is from Judges 21

They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, “Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, ‘Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn’t find enough wives for them when we dest60royed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'” So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

He rapes her but they're both stoned because she didn't shout loud enough. One of the people who had to stone her would have been her fiance. I just can't get my head around that barbarism. Making a man kill his fiance.

FreshStartIn2017
The theory of evolution does not prove that god doesn't exist, Nino e is saying that, as you can't prove that fact using scientific measures.

What it does show is that there is overwhelming evidence, together with all other scientific theories that the bible is incorrect, and at best is an interesting, heavily edited version of early societies attempt to organise themselves and make sense of the world around them.

Put it in a museum and let's all move on.

Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight.

So gods angry and says he's going to see to it that the wives get raped by the neighbours. I thought he didn't like that sort of thing? But he's going to do it as a punishment? I'm so confused.

He's a funny one that god of yours.

I have to make choices to love my husband sometimes (and don't FEEL like it, always).

I would hope you would choose to not love him if he didn't deserve your love, like if he was being abusive.

Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight.

Oh dear, Headinhands, you've lifted this from your atheist website without checking it out first, haven't you?

Well, as has been pointed out to you repeatedly over the years, it's all about context. Let me give you the back story. David had listed after, and taken, another mans wife and killed him to hide it - this is found in the previous chapter (Samuel 11).

This says NOTHING about rape. It speaks of having sex openly. God was telling David that he had tried to cover his adultery by killing the husband, but that the consequences would be he would experience exactly the same (adultery) but they wouldn't even try to hide it. They'd do it openly and brazenly; in full sight of all. How humiliating that would be. This was fulfilled 2 Samuel 16:22 where Davids own son committed adultery in public, to deliberately antagonise his Dad. Not nice for David. But you know, none of our consequences for sin is nice. Not even one.

So there you have the truth. Nothing to do with rape and everything to do with people REFUSING to keep God's law and going from bad to worse because of the consequences of their sins.

So you think it's acceptable for God to orchestra that scenario?

bad to worse because of the consequences of their sins.

But gods threats aren't logical consequences.

Headinhands regarding judges 21.

God doesn't command them to do this. Rather than seek to have the marriage arranged they decided to take the law into their own hands and arrange it without choice. It was nevertheless an intention for marriage and not random raping and pillaging. You see in verse 22 the men reasoned with the family of the girls, absolving then of any guilt, showing them their daughters would be marrying into families of wealth and status, and would be honoured correctly as a wife should be, and would therefore be well catered for. But the men didn't receive this direction from God; we read in verse 21 that each man was doing what they thought best because they had no one to rule over them.

That wording doesn't suggest consensual sex. He is taking and giving them to the men. Gods going to make it happen.

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

If WTHIN the city. You know, where there are a lot of people to hear a call for help. This prevented people merrily fornicating and committing adultery and then crying rape. I covered this in greater detail earlier in this thread so maybe take a hike back and have a good read?

I wonder how this would look on the relationship thread, "I have a relationship with an older partner, who is very judgmental , hates gays, sex before marriage,thinks woman are possessions, has a history of serious anger management issues and often puts people in physiologically stressful situations to teach them his lessons which are contradictory and nonsensical.

He has killed millions, and also sent his son into a situation, knowing he would be killed, and in fact withholds valuable information which would save countless lives over his lifetime"

But he says he loves me"

"Fucking nut job, leave the bastard" would be the only sane response!

This prevented people merrily fornicating and committing adultery and then crying rape.

It lead to rape victims being stoned to death. What happens if they didn't scream?