That marriage can only be between a man and a woman.

[OneHumanFamily]

The House Of Bishops Report proposes no change to ecclesiastical law or to the Church of England’s existing doctrinal position on marriage and sexual relationships. The Report also says that the Church needs to repent for homophobic attitudes. Anglicanism has always been a contested faith: Will homosexuality eventually be accepted?

www.churchofengland.org/media/3863472/gs-2055-marriage-and-same-sex-relationships-after-the-shared-conversations-report-from-the-house-of-bishops.pdf

suspect God knew rest would be important for our physical and mental health, seeing as he made the human body.

And then ordered that someone who was collecting sticks on the sabbath to be stoned to death. Doesn't look like he cared too much about our health.

Numbers 15

32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lordcommanded Moses.

As I said earlier, God brings judgement of death sometimes. In this case the warning came in Exodus 31:14 (the book before the one you quoted). Picking up sticks is fine on its own, but blatantly rebelling against God was not going to be left to slide.

This article helps explain it all much better and in more detail - worth a read http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1259

Why should they change the law . Whether one feels it's outdated or the religion clearly has its views on homesexuality - so why would you want to be part of this. Also, why do the gays feel they have to impose there views on people . Clearly not everyone agrees with homesexuality so why push it down our throats.Each to their own but I find it patrionising when one feels there actions should be condoned by everyone else.

Wow! You can't argue with stupid can you?

It's 'their' not 'there', for a start. And 'homosexuality'. Then 'patronising'. Which my post clearly and deliberately is.

You are a very ignorant poster. No-one is pushing anything down your throat. Gay people are gay people. Fact.

And if anyone disagrees with it - tough. It's a fact of life, and there are laws against people who discriminate against homosexuals.

Oh, and I'm SO glad that you joined Mumsnet just to post this.

"As I said earlier, God brings judgement of death sometimes"

Oh, well that's alright then...

Belsel8 "the gays?" Really? you don't have to agree or disagree with someone's sexuality, but what you do have to do in an inclusive, modern, forward thinking society is not be offensive about a group of people who are not doing anything wrong. Still SMH at "the gays" unbelievable.

Clearly not everyone agrees with homesexuality so why push it down our throats.

And clearly what two consenting adults do with their genitals is your business- how exactly?

Or indeed the business of the church?

The church is so hung up about sex it's warped.

I guess if the church admits it is wrong about homosexuality it'll have to admit it's wrong about other things. A slippery slope.

It's not about right and wrong though lady, it's political.
The church is never wrong about anything, they just need to reinterpret a few passages

1. Thou shalt not have other Gods before me - This is effectively religious suppression, the logic of the Taliban/ISIS.

2. Thou shalt not make thee any graven image..... - This is the most ridiculous commandment possible. Instead of teaching humanity important lessons for future generations that will make the world a better a place, God is focusing on this drivel.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain - This commandment isn’t entirely clear, is it simply cursing God that’s prohibited, or it saying things like “God damn!” or exclaiming “Jesus!”? Also why is this important? These are supposed to be moral codes for all humanity for all eternity, why is God wasting time on this nonsense?

4. Keep holy the Sabbath day - Why? It is not clear how the Sabbath should be kept holy, are you not allowed to do anything (like fundamentalists believe) or is it just work that is prohibited? Seeing as this rule is being widely violated nowadays, will everyone who works on Sunday be punished in the afterlife? What day is the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday?

5. Honour thy father and mother What about in the cases of abusive parents? In case you were wondering the penalty for not obeying this law is death.

6. Thou shalt not kill - God apparently didn’t think the most important rules for humanity deserved much time or elaboration. Thus there is debate over whether it is killing or murder that is prohibited. Is killing in self-defence justified? What about war? Manslaughter? These are important issues, but more space is given to describing prohibitions of graven images.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery - But what if the relationship is in serious trouble and the person has a good reason? Why is it anyone else’s business? What right do priests have to go nosing into other people’s sex lives? The punishment of death is widely disproportionate and something only the Taliban/ISIS would enforce.

8. Thou shalt not steal - Unfortunately, no details are given so it isn’t clear what happens to people who are forced to steal. The starving for example. Or imagine I have been kidnapped but I can escape by stealing the kidnapper’s car. Am I allowed to do this or is this prohibited?

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour - We all tell white lies, but it is false accusations and perjury that are prohibited. This is the level of common sense that is lacking in the other commandments.

10. Thou shalt not desire thy neighbour’s wife... - Greed and envy are inevitable and unavoidable, prohibiting them is like prohibiting farts. It’s going to happen whether you like it or not. Many argue that greed is actually a good thing and should be encouraged not banned. It is argued that greed is the driving force of capitalism and the main reason we do anything. Some say if we did not envy successful people, we would have no motivation to improve our lives.

Have had a good look and can't find any commandment banning same sex marriage.

we believe that our Anglican inheritance has something particular to offer – not only to the resolution of the Church’s internal arguments but to a world that is more broken, and which causes more human misery, than is often admitted or recognised. Our cultural context is one in which human isolation is a major scandal and an evil which neither state intervention nor commercial contracts can begin to resolve. The sustenance of viable, warm, reciprocal and loving human relationships is too often neglected. The family, and the communities to which we belong, have been left to struggle with the task of keeping us all human – and matters of sexuality cannot be separated from the family, from friendship or, ultimately, from community

That's rich. What about LGBTQ people who feel isolated and denied loving relationships because the Church refuses to acknowledge them?

I think that most people tend to be in favour of homesexuality. It's generally much more considerate of others than parksexuality or that-dark-corner-behind-the-nightclub-sexuality or parked-car-sexuality. I suppose hotelsexuality is generally acceptable, too.

I'm very sad about the House of Bishops, but so are most of the Christians I know, who want a world more full of love, not less.

Sorry Jamie but that isn't how the Ten Commandments are interpreted by any Christians I know. The graven images one, for example, isn't about not making pictures of things. It's about not worshipping an object and calling it God, giving it food, asking it what to do. Taking the name of God in vain is about using God to justify things which are wrong- Westborough baptists do this I would say, when they claim disasters are God's punishing the world for homosexuality. I've only met one person who thinks this, despite being very much part of an expended church community.

I never recognise the religion people attack on threads like this. I would hate the religion you talk about, too. It's not the religion practised in my church, however. It's probably what the Westborough Baptists preach, but it's not common in the UK.

Clearly not everyone agrees with homesexuality so why push it down our throats.

Just because people are bigoted doesn't mean they get to have their bigotry protected. People have the right to their own sexuality and to be in relationships with other consenting adults. There should be no discrimination.

that isn't how the Ten Commandments are interpreted by any Christians I know

That is just it, gods ten eternal rules to live a good life dont give much detail, dont cover lifes important issues and need to be interpreted. So we have to rely on humanist logic to live a good life as if the ten commandments didn't exist. And most people agree gay marriage is a good thing, so why doesn't the church?

It's explained a bit up thread. It takes ages for an ancient institution like the church to change direction. It took ages re women, it will take ages re gay marriage. Like an army marching, if the front goes too fast it loses the tail. The people at the front are preparing everything, sorting out camp, building the structure, while we wait for the message to filter down in this case to the wider Anglican communion in countries where homosexuality is still illegal.
The speed of change since the nineties has been phenomenal. There were hardly any openly gay couples then, outside of showbusiness. Now, there are several on my, very short, street, and no one even thinks about it. That is such a huge transformation in a short period of time. Let old lady church catch her breath from recognising women can be priests, she'll get there.

pickle- I am glad you realise that the church is only a reaction to society, not the basis of altruism.

I find it laughable that the church should be dragging it's heels when it comes to matters of fairness.

Shouldn't it be setting the lead instead of "catching its breath"?

1. Thou shalt not have other Gods before me - This is not religious suppression, the logic of the Taliban/ISIS. It is in fact, the One. True. God. saying it is unacceptable to try and make out anything else comes even close to his Almighty Power. It discounts completely the commonly held misconception that you can have whichever god you fancy, and they all lead to the same destination. God at least is very clear and fair in outlining this without any shadow of a doubt. No one will have any excuse when it comes to judgement day. They an't say they thought it was ok because it didn't make it clear in the 10 commandments, can they?!

2. Thou shalt not make thee any graven image..... - This is not at all the most ridiculous commandment possible. It is in fact a command to support the first, just in case anyone tried to say they thought it would be ok. You'd be amazed at how people try to twist God and his word. But here they can't, as it's as clear as the nose on your face. Of course, being clear doesn't mean it's popular, that's a whole different thing altogether. God also does teach humanity as well as many other important lessons for future generations, all of which (if only humans would follow) would make the world a much better a place. The 10 commandments aren't the only commandments given. They were just the top 10 of that time, and I think it's quite kind of God to not give Moses tablets with thousands of commands written on them. God doesn't like to overwhelm his simple creation, he's much kinder than that.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain - This commandment isn’t entirely clear, is it simply cursing God that’s prohibited, or it saying things like “God damn!” or exclaiming “Jesus!”? Also why is this important? These are supposed to be moral codes for all humanity for all eternity, why is God wasting time on this nonsense?

I think I pointed out that it is thought more to be in connection with people saying God tells them this, or God tells them that, when actually it is false and they'd be better off not making up their own ideas about what God says, but following what he's written for us in his big book. Someone up thread also reiterated it is the like of Westboro who try and quote God's mind horribly badly, and are as far off the mark as fundamental atheists can be.

4. Keep holy the Sabbath day - Why? It is not clear how the Sabbath should be kept holy, are you not allowed to do anything (like fundamentalists believe) or is it just work that is prohibited? Seeing as this rule is being widely violated nowadays, will everyone who works on Sunday be punished in the afterlife? What day is the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday?

Wow, lots of questions! Quite good ones here actually. It is quite clear how it should be kept holy, because God said "six days you can
work, and on the seventh day, rest." He even likens the sabbath to his creation, which shows God rested on the 7th day. Nice and simple. This also tells us that it doesn't much matter which of the 7 days is a day of rest, just that you get a day of rest. As I said before, I suspect it is as much to do with our physical need for rest, and for our wellbeing, as are so many of God's other commands (we just don't always see it!).
Oh, and, you don't get punished for eternity if you break the sabbath rest. You get punished for eternity if you choose that for yourself by not jumping about the lifeboat when it comes to rescue you. It's your choice! No one si forcing you to go, anyone can make their own choices to be open to God (in which case he will reveal more of himself to you) or closed to God.

5. Honour thy father and mother What about in the cases of abusive parents? In case you were wondering the penalty for not obeying this law is death

The act of honouring someone is defined as: "honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions". It is possible to act honestly and fairly towards an abuser, without accepting their abuse. This would be honouring them if they are abusers. Abusing back isn't the way forward.

6. Thou shalt not kill - God apparently didn’t think the most important rules for humanity deserved much time or elaboration. Thus there is debate over whether it is killing or murder that is prohibited. Is killing in self-defence justified? What about war? Manslaughter? These are important issues, but more space is given to describing prohibitions of graven images.

It is more important to understand that even people who don't kill will not go to heaven if they follow false gods, so from that point of view, I think the priority is completely right. First get the right God, and then get the right behaviour, the desire of which, by the way, comes with someone who truly walks with God. Anyone can call themselves a christian but not everyone who alls themselves a christian walks with God. Big difference.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery - But what if the relationship is in serious trouble and the person has a good reason? Why is it anyone else’s business?

As someone who had a spouse do this to me, I can hand on heart say it IS anyone else's business because it automatically overspills into their lives, whether they like it or not. I'm guessing it hasn't happened to you? You ask what if the relationship has serious trouble? Well in that case they either work it out of cut it off clean before putting it out to anyone else first. I think most people on the street would think that's the way forward, and not adultery. In fact, Ive seen many a thread here on MN where the OW gets it in the neck from everyone else, so I am not the only one who can see the damage of it. Plus, of course, Jesus said if you even lust over someone else, you've committed adultery in your heart. So no roving eye, husbands!

8. Thou shalt not steal - Unfortunately, no details are given so it isn’t clear what happens to people who are forced to steal. The starving for example. Or imagine I have been kidnapped but I can escape by stealing the kidnapper’s car. Am I allowed to do this or is this prohibited?

I love your imagination! I think we all know what stealing is. If you're starving, Proverbs 6 says this: "People do not despise a thief if he steals
to satisfy his hunger when he is starving. Yet if he is caught, he must pay sevenfold, though it costs him all the wealth of his house."
God doesn't condone it, but I would hazard a guess that a thief might steal first before approaching God for help? In your great kidnapping example, I am sure you're not stealing the car as much as temporarily borrowing it with a view to returning it as soon as you've apprehended the kidnapper? I think you can always find exceptional circumstances like that, but nobody like a thief or accepts it when they're robbed, for a good reason.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour - We all tell white lies, but it is false accusations and perjury that are prohibited. Even white lies aren't all that great. White becomes off-white, becomes grey, becomes dark, becomes full-on black. It's a slippery slope. Better to tell the truth all the time! Though easier said than done.

10. Thou shalt not desire thy neighbour’s wife... - Greed and envy are inevitable and unavoidable, prohibiting them is like prohibiting farts. It’s going to happen whether you like it or not. Many argue that greed is actually a good thing and should be encouraged not banned. It is argued that greed is the driving force of capitalism and the main reason we do anything. Some say if we did not envy successful people, we would have no motivation to improve our lives.

I disagree and think when you see people handle something really well, that motivates you to copy them. This isn't envy though. Envy is about discontentment and inordinately or wrongly desirous of wealth or possessions; greedy. Greed is not healthy because we know the more you have the more you want. Psychologists have long since accepted we are never satisfied! There is a good satisfaction, and one that leads to laziness, and obviously I am talking about the positive type.

Have had a good look and can't find any commandment banning same sex marriage.

There's a lot of commands outside of the 10 commandments, and some of them relate to sexual behaviour. Others relation to inner conflicts that we more easily hide. The whole point of the 10 commandments by the way, was to show people they can't even keep all 10. So anytime someone shrieks "how very dare you!' when you say we're sinners, all you have to do is point them to the 10 simple commandments and you can be sure they'll have at least committed one of them. Usually a lot more. It is a tool to show people they are not as righteous as they might like to think, and that the wages of sin is death, yet the free gift of God is eternal life. God never shows us our failure without also showing us a hope and a solution.

Oh, and, you don't get punished for eternity if you break the sabbath rest. You get punished for eternity if you choose that for yourself by not jumping about the lifeboat when it comes to rescue you. It's your choice! No one si forcing you to go, anyone can make their own choices to be open to God (in which case he will reveal more of himself to you) or closed to God

Him that guy in the OT that got stoned. He totally got the message that God loves him and cares for him. It's like last week when I told my ds to come off his Xbox for a 20 min break. When he didn't I broke several of his bones before drowning him in the bath. The police arrested me but apparently they think I was over the top and they couldn't see I was just showing him my loving concern.

Boolifooli nice though a person you might be, you are not God! So of course behaving like that to your child would be completely unacceptable. You are not God. Not is any man.

This article from apologeticspress.org explains it really well, and likens it to military discipline. None of us like discipline unless we choose it for ourselves, and you can imagine what would happen if people decided they didn't want to wear the army uniform. There is no harm in wearing your own clothes but there is harm in refusing to conform when you're in the military, because who is to say you won't decide you know best on the battlefield too? Imagine what chaos there'd be if everyone just did their own thing? This is why the military come down hard on you if you so much as fail to polish your boots. So although picking up sticks is fine, just like not polishing your boots, God saw the bigger picture and dealt with the act of rebellion because, in the same way as on the battle field, people can't just go their own way and spect to get away with it. Sooner or later there will be a price to pay. In this man's case it was sooner.

you are not God! So of course behaving like that to your child would be completely unacceptable. You are not God. Not is any man.

Why would it be wrong to behave like god and do that to my child?

Sooner or later there will be a price to pay

do you think it is fair? to have rocks thrown at your head until you die because you picked up sticks on the sabbath? would you be able to kill someone by throwing rocks at their head for picking up sticks if god told you?