Anyone willing to hold my hand during discernment process?

[Minicooper]

I'm exploring a call to ordination in the Church of England - met the DDO before Christmas and have a meeting with the bishop's advisor tomorrow to begin the process of applying for an archbishop's faculty as I'm divorced and remarried.

I'd love some support and advice if anyone's been through similar?

Thanks in advance!

Mini I trained part time with the regional course for my diocese, so six weekends and one week per year residential, plus one evening a week for (in our case online) classes. I cannot tell a lie, it was tough at times to fit in with nearly full time work + children but it was so worth it. It does wonders for your time management! And the residentials were great. There's a lot to be said for non-residential training, as it gives you loads of practice in the kind of juggling you do in parish ministry. You also tend to be together with people from the entire spectrum of traditions in the CofE, which is challenging at times but also great. In my case we also did part of our training with readers-in-training which was good experience for working with readers in the parish.

I'm feeling a bit clueless about it all at the moment. Seen all my bishops advisers and been allocated a good spiritual supervised. I know that the residential weekend is in June ... but the lack of information about training is huge.

I do know that there are two ways to train in my diocese. It's either a 2 year residential post grad diploma or a 3 year distance learning programme with monthly weekend residentials. If I want to go into a stipendary parish ministry position I have to do the 2 year post grad diploma. A lot to think about so early on.

It might be an idea to go on some college open days to work out how training would work for family as well as you. I went down the non residential training route as I had teenagers who couldn't be moved out of school. On that course five out of nine of us went into paid jobs. The distinction may not be between stipendary and not, but between incumbent and assistant level. This is determined at BAP. Alternatively your diocese may have incumbent status ordinands who are not giving up their day jobs on the non residential course. Do you know which category you are in? Historically assistants would be trained on non residential courses but that is no longer the case.

It is confusing but you will be asked at BAP about training and they need to know that your training pathway is realistic and has been thought through.

Hi monty. Is the selection process in NZ the same as here do you know?

I did a day retreat last week and the Sister I spoke to had a pretty dismissive view of the whole thing - basically said I need to do a lot of other stuff first (sorting out my failed relationship for instance) - harsh but good to get a reality check to counter everyone else's enthusiasm! Everyone within my close church circle that is, I haven't told many people.

It's similar but different in NZ Edd. It seems to follow the general pattern of the C of E for the discernment process but every diocese is a bit different. I'm in the Auckland diocese but live nowhere near Auckland so I had a 3 hour drive to see one if the bishops advisers last week.

If I want to do any form of attended ministry I have to do a 2 year residential diploma at st Johns college in Auckland. I'm Slightly envious of the different choices available in England.

Sorry I hadn't realise you were in NZ. It looks like a similar process but there is not much information online. This blog www.pickingapplesofgold.com/discernment-guide/ is very real about the process in the UK and as there is still a residential selection panel it might be helpful.

One of the hardest questions at BAP was about plan B which is about not being selected. That is what is underlying my suggestion to look at theological colleges. So plan A is college and moving the family and renting/selling/leaving the house and what do we do with the cat. That takes a lot of headspace. But plan B is not being selected. It is worth putting some thought into that one.

Preparing for BAP is a really odd time. It's 10 years ago for me now but I do remember the anxiety.

Yes, thinking about Plan B is really hard. I don't think I had a Plan B as such and they didn't ask me, but if they had I would have said something along the lines of Plan B is to find out what God is calling me to do if it's not ordained ministry.

Edd that does sound like a pretty hard thing to hear. Might be worth taking a few weeks to pray over what she said and discern what you need to hear and what might not be right at this moment. The vocations adviser I saw was convinced I shouldn't be put into the discernment process for ordination - she said I ought to be a Reader. I'm pretty glad, all things considered, that after thinking about it for a while, I decided to ask if I could still go ahead . Sometimes people looking in from outside don't get it right -- although, of course, often they do, because they don't have to take on our own stories about ourselves.

Yes it was a bit hard. But it’s very early days and I’m still open to there being different possible answers (I mean obviously there are, but I’m not so invested in the one as not to be able to contemplate others..). There are lots of threads to be woven to make any of the possibilities into a coherent path, and I am trying hard to listen to all the ways in which God is guiding me...

A friend of mine hit the plan B conundrum a few months ago, and it is very hard for her so clearly good to think about through the process rather than just at the end.

Well mini step 2 tick - Diocesan vocations forum day - which was really interesting engaging and useful, and I was all positive (last Saturday). And then I had another massive WTF am I THINKING moment in church (last Sunday). So ho hum. Next stop Rev R who is to be my vocations adviser for the next few months...

Hi Edd, glad the forum day went well. I've got a sort of plan B in the back ground which i am working on from time to time. If i get a no from the discernment process one thing i have learned is i need to change my current job, so I've got an alternative plan in the back ground.

I went to the chrism service at our church in holy week - the diocese is so vast that the bishop does two chrism services. One in the cathedral and one in our parish which is about 2 1/2 hours drive from the cathedral. The archdeacon preached on loneliness and isolation when serving a parish, being of the people but apart from the people. Gave me a lot of things to think about.

Have a fabulous Easter everyone - Allelulia!

Yes, I've heard a lot about isolation and lack of support from various sources too. I think people try and put you off as a kind of way of testing your commitment perhaps. (Though that was obviously not the agenda of the archdeacon in your case!)

I have a various plan B's - keeping things open still for all kinds of reasons.

I'm meeting Rev R next week so we'll see what she thinks then...

Glad things are progressing Edd. Hope things go week with your meeting with Rev R. And thank you Monty - I had to Google chrism - new one on me!

I've now sent all my paperwork off and got my 4 references, ready for BAP end of May. All getting a bit scary now!

The stuff about isolation isn't to put you off but is being realistic about what the ordained life is like. I was chatting with someone earlier in the week and we are both on our third diocese so we have packed everything up and moved house and family a number of times. Part of the deal with stipendary ministry is that you live in the parish in a house provided for you. This can be great. We live in a big house and have a huge garden but we can't do anything to it as it is not ours. We live in the parish where lots of people know us and expect us to behave in a certain way. Each time you change job and move it is a major upheaval and my colleague and I both moved away from our friendship groups and the people who really get what it is like.

I wouldn't want to live any other way, it is a privilege and joy to do what I do, but there are real costs which people will try and tell you about. The ordained life is lonely so you have to work really hard at maintaining the friendships you have and spotting new and appropriate ones. If you have hobbies which get you out of the house don't give them up. I'm spending this week planning and getting started on the garden as that is what I love to do. Other friends run, cycle, get out with the camera,sing in a choir, paint or buy a dog. Anything to get away from the home office. If you don't have a hobby or outside interest take one up.

Yeah, I see that. That's helpful greenheart. Do you find it's possible to be proper friends with any parishoners or do you find the fact that there's also the (actual or potential) pastoral relationship makes it too tricky to navigate?

mini wow! remember to come back and remind us to think of you before your BAP! Are you 4 referees all people who've known you forever? I'm slightly wondering who on earth I'd ask...

Referees were a bit troublesome for me as I've only lived in New Zealand for 7 years. I had to nominate 3 people and the parish priest had to nominate 6 people and I have no idea who those 6 are. I'm now waiting to see if I am invited to the residential phase ( kind of like BAP) in June.

I've been following picking apples of gold for some time now, I like the honesty of it all!

I met with a really helpful bishops adviser earlier this year who was very clear to me about personal life pit falls and inadvertently upsetting the parish. She caused huge uproar in one parish by putting net curtains up in her house so she had a bit of privacy for her family and could slob around in pyjamas on her day off.

There is a difference between being friendly and being friends. I don't have any close friends in the congregation. That might have something to do with the size of a congregation. I've worked in churches of 150-250 and that is a different dynamic to the one I'm in now with 50-70 people. I have friends in the town where I work but they are from before ordination and I'm just lucky that we have moved here and I have coffee drinking buddies close by.

My predecessor was really bad at maintaining appropriate boundaries so I have to be over scrupulous. His inner circle go off and stay with him for a week every year and the parish is really jangly after they get back.

Monty - that's exciting! It's all happening.... Referees - I used my vicar, my boss from my last job, a female curate in my church (this was for my educational reference - bit of a stretch but it's 20 years since I graduated!) and our young families' worker for my lay reference - I've only known her for a couple of years but have worked closely with her. All a bit nerve wracking, but it's all becoming a bit more real. I switch from being ready/ excited to horribly nervous! Seems a big thing 2.5 years in....

Edd - I'll definitely post again before I BAP - if only to ask people to pray!

Oh crumbs, letter in the post today ... off to the residential weekend in June!

Great monty that’s fab.

Oooh, exciting, Monty! Keep us posted!

I suppose I don’t need to worry about referees for a while... but it’s good to hear they don’t all need to have been watching you in church for years.. mini do you know if they do the secret referees here too? I’m not sure there are 10 churchy people who know me well enough! (I think I’d know if they did do that so I guess not).

greenheart that sounds hard. Sympathies.

One of the things I’m unsure of is whether I’d ever be an incumbent. I couldn’t move my kids - though the youngest would be 15 probably when I’d start curacy. So I could maybe do that locally, and move when they’re 18. I don’t know. It’s all very fraught! Also waiting to find out what the Diocese will make of my separation/ relationship... many hoops still to go.

Hi Edd, no I don't think we have secret referees here - all mine showed me theirs before they sent them off - and declared they had done so, so there shouldn't be any surprises...

What's happening with your separation - do you need to speak to someone about it? I was previously married so needed an archbishop's faculty, but I don't know if you need a similar investigation - presumably not if you're not divorced? It's a weird process and does involve making yourself very vulnerable...

Hi everyone, just reading through but was wondering if I might join you all? My referral went off before Christmas, I have had my first meeting with the DDO and about to meet with my Vocations Advisor. Still can't believe that so far people are progressing me forward, as I am still in a state of disbelief that a) God might be calling me to ordained ministry and b) that it is happening after 10 years of ignoring it and hoping God would forget!

I will now read through the rest of the thread, and I am praying for each of you as you go through the process, whatever stage that may be.