Choirs, worship songs, after service coffee - the all new religion chat thread

[niminypiminy]

A new place for us to share the lovely, silly and annoying things that happen in church life and share our great love of Graham Kendrick.

IT really spells out, doesn't it, that it is God doing the work. We stand up and talk, hopefully to some purpose and with some preparation, but the best bits happen not when brains process our words, but when God transforms the message in someone's heart. Makes you wonder how much of the detail matters...

I spend a lot of time bringing back in my head exact phrases.
It's good and bad in equal measure
I used to sleep a lot - I need a lot of sleep - but I find it really hard to switch off my brain these days.
Today, my mind is on people in general - when someone is having an argument with me, where their point is wrong (in law and morals), but because they see it as "not worth the hassle it causes", why do watchers tell me to stop arguing? They know the other person just as well, and the other person was the one who reacted badly (I made a statement, they took against it, argument ensued, I was told I had to stop the argument even though I wasn't the one starting it)
This kind of interaction confuses me, but it annoys me more - like I think they're tellling me that because I'm the autistic one they can give me instruction on stuff, but it's okay for the other person to carry on? (If it were an argument with someone they didn't know as well as me I wouldn't mind so much the double standards)
Then, I had to spend time explaining to my friend that telling me to calm down wmhas the absolutely opposite effect, and that either letting me finish my rant and move on or distract me is a better solution - while they're ignoring me telling them to stop telling me to calm.down. How on earth do you reason with that?! What more can you do but say "please stop doing/saying that"
Then to be told by another friend (not party to the last two things) that my voice had carried into a meeting (when I wasn't the only person talking loudly outside the room), and that everyone in the room had commented on it - yes, I really love to be laughed at and humiliated.
Then I got home and had received a letter from the vicar of the church where dd and I go to "craft church" that they weren't going to run it anymore (it only got 9 people every month!) (It would have been this Sunday coming)
Oh, then I finally got my email from.the pcc seceetary with that pcc minutes, and reading it sounds like the item discussed wasn't the same item I was told about - I was told "mesy church tteam" and the minutes seem to say "leadership and planning of messy church- team"
I've asked for clarification - as well as "what reasons were given for it being not appropriate"
It's either track covering, conspiracy or misinterpretation (I'm guessing the first from the fact that no one has contacted me to contradict)
I have had such a shit day.
Thankfully, I had dance tonight and was able to concentrate on something pleasant for 3 hours.

Oh nickel. You're in my prayers tonight. And you pickle (re the other thread).

Fink thankfully I haven't suffered any of that judgement, I think most of the church would rather he's not around, to be honest, it's a wonder I have any friends left.

One of my main issues at the moment though is that I've fallen for someone else, who I'm certain wouldn't be interested in me at all, and it's so difficult. No matter how much I try I can't seem to put him out of my mind, and praying that I'll find the right path isn't helping either.

Sorry nickel, that's tough. I'm not at my best unless I get a lot of sleep, too. Are you able to detach a little bit? To hear someone tell you for example, that your voice was loud without feeling personally hurt?

Watchers feel they have a better grasp of the big picture, but can't always explain all the tiny details of why something is right sometimes and not others. I'm not saying I agree with them- I can't possibly, I wasn't there. I'm just wondering what is causing the gap between what you think and what the watcher thinks. The watcher might think ' 'A'doesn't get much sleep and has an important responsibility in church, B must back down'.

I'm sorry people are telling you to calm down. I hope you can find some peace today.

I'm single too - but definitely settled single, not dating.

There's a bit of a bias towards marriage in our church, which is understandable since it's definitely the norm. Lots of marriage course and marriage retreats. And one sermon a year on singleness, mainly aimed at the younger generation!

I think if you're newly single and interested in dating after years of marriage, it may be that you revert back to the mental state of the last time you were dating (of course I mean 'one' rather than you personally) and so things like unrealistic crushes are part and parcel of it.

Maybe consider having a really good solid pray (and chat with a trusted person) about whether this has the potential to develop into an actual relationship or not. Even though you've said he's definitely not interested, it would be worthwhile thinking that through and coming to a reasoned understanding of if it could ever go anywhere or not - e.g. is it just a lack of self-confidence which makes you think he wouldn't be interested, or is he actually married or in the celibate priesthood or something ... If you discern that it's not ever going to develop into a relationship then it could be that what you actually feel is a need for love and acceptance and affirmation which has been unfulfilled by the marriage break up. I can't remember which author said it but it came up in my philosophy class recently that when we're attracted to something bad for us it's no good to just try to fight it by rejecting it, what we actually have to do is to look for a stronger attraction to pull us in the opposite direction. A bit like gravity will inevitably work to pull something to e.g. the earth, UNLESS there's a bigger object around to exert a gravitational pull. So when we need love, instead of trying to block the need out, we turn to God who can offer so much more love. And we also try to sort things out practically so that we're not sitting at home thinking 'well, the love of God is certainly more fulfilling in the long run than that doomed relationship, but it's not cuddling up to me on the sofa and watching a film!'

In a way I am single as well of course and for me it was a "till death us do part" issue.
And it is lonely: God does not come to tea or cuddle up on the sofa to watch a film.
But I do find that I am a complete person in myself and that my life is a completeness in itself before adding other elements to it.

To begin with I was frantic to do things I had not been able to do when Bob was alive, but now, three years, on I'm beginning to notice that I am quite happy by myself for quite a while and content to let people find me if that is what they want to do. And not feel unloved or incomplete.
It might be like that after a marriage break up: you are so desprate for the love that you never got and there is such a vacuum that it is no wonder that all sorts of ideas, like dating someone else jump into that vacuum. Only you can decide for yourself whether it is right to pursue a relationship, but it may not be, for all sorts of reasons. And in that case you need to stand on your own two feet, with space all around you, doing what God gives you to do from day to day.

Thanks everyone x

Thank you for those insights- I'm not single, but they are relevant to other things too.

Yes, thanks for sharing. I am in the fortunate situation of dh being a Christian himself but not being that bothered about what I am or not, and happy to try different churches or being as involved or not as I wish.

My tough person to deal with was my Catholic godmother, who was all about rules and not about love, but that was a long time ago thankfully!

Nickel, hang on, 9 regular attendees at craft church and it's going to be stopped? . We'd be amazed to get 3 regulars to something like that!!

Thank you pickle nope, we're equal to the 3rd person. The only difference is I'm obviously a project.

Yeah, the 9 include leader, her helper, me and dd, another mum and her 3 and a churchwarden who comes to every other one and thinks all the kids run around too much. She also thinks the leader isn't strict enough, which might have a bearing on the decision - but it was homely and she was the only one who minded it was disorganized chaos

The letter says "in reviewing our bbenefice and the ministry we make available we have decided to close the facility of "church at ten" as from the start of the year in order to concentrate o other areas"
I'm sure it's not personal , it was just a bit of a blow

I lead a messy church style service. We have breakfast as well. It's a huge amount of work and a financial commitment. That said, it works for us. Our numbers are reasonable and it appeals to some folk who don't come to other services. I do groan when I know it is due though, because of the work!

'and thinks all the kids run around too much'

• haha, sounds familiar!

Mil has been on the phone here dragging me into an argument I wasn't even involved with; bringing up incidents from years ago. I was keen for dh to reconcile but now wish I hadn't bothered!!! Anyone read any sensible Christian books that help with tricky families?

Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend.
Fab book!

I second that!
Boundaries was quite revolutionary for me. I read it at the same time as a parenting book... Together they helped me think about whose problem the issue is, and what the natural consequences are.

I didn't find Boundaries for Children as helpful as the straight Boundaries book. But that one was life changing!

The Five Love Languages I've also found useful - thinking about what I react to, and what other people react to, helps me sort out why people might be hissy with me when I think I'm being lovely. But Boundaries first definitely

Yeah, you see my ex husband was a Christian when we married, or at least I thought so, maybe he was just attending. I think that's one of the things that is so drawing me towards the guy that I like. I'm terrified of talking to him about it though, because I'm 99% certain he isn't interested, and 100% certain it would have a negative impact on me at church if he turned me down.

I suppose you just need to make yourself available, be around, and see what happens. I think if there is a possibility of a relationship, it will happen naturally. But then, I know nothing.

Thanks for the boundaries recommendation both - I have ordered it!

amammabear, that sounds tough...

They gave out a survey that was asked to be in by advent sunday (that's the week we left)
They've just published the results on the display board. I only know this because I went into the church this morning (mainly to take photos but also to pray - I did the morning prayer from bcp with the help of youtube).
Interesting results. Most of it shows a trend of generally liking the services and the family but finding some intolerances and lack of support etc.
They produced a booklet typed with every single comment that was made in each section (anon, of course)
In section 7 on Loving Relationships ("do you share hospitality and love to the unchurched as well as other church members at home and at church - is Christianity expressed through the love if Christ a tangible thing in all our lives at this church?").
I'm putting pictures of the two most resonant

I'm really surprised they left that name in! That's quite shocking. The comments are interesting though.

Yeah, leaving that name in on a public noticeboard is pretty bad.