Choirs, worship songs, after service coffee - the all new religion chat thread

[niminypiminy]

A new place for us to share the lovely, silly and annoying things that happen in church life and share our great love of Graham Kendrick.

I didn't want to give up so soon, when the first couple I learned were quite good 😊

What were the good ones?

Servant King. Here I am Lord. 'Modern' versions of Be Thou my Vision and another old one I've temporarily forgotten. Make me a channel of your peace (annoyingly haven't found the same recording I liked). Thats about all I know. I tried Vicky Beeching cos she's a friend of a friend but no joy there. I honestly don't know the territory at all.

Working from those 2 suggestions...
Come and see (think by Graham kendrick)
Psalm 23 by stuart townend
Workers prayer by stuart townend (think thats its name it starts before you i kneel my master and maker to offer the works of my hands)

Nickel, it's frustrating, isn't it. There is a peace which comes from knowing that you have knocked on the door, even if it didn't open. It's like being invitational. Our job is to invite, the response is out of our hands, to do with God and the other person. In church can we suggest, prepare- but if the rest of the church or the individuals within it are not ready, then that is out of our hands.

Edd, try 'Mary did you know', possibly the Pentatonics version. The words are so moving. It's more modern tha the ones you mention, but has the same emotion as Servant King. We have two organ hymns and two/three very contemporary songs at each service. Tradition bracketing the service.

Interesting stuff about gatekeepers... It's extra-difficult when your gatekeeper is semi-retired and so able to do all the 'extras' when you yourself are spread so thinly between work, travelling to see elderly family, childcare... It's hard to appear 'committed'.

I need to improve my worship song knowledge too - keep 'em coming, folks!

I definitely do not want to improve my worship song knowledge thanks
It sounds, Edd that you're into the furst wave of midern stuff, so Tim Hughes, Stuart Townend and GK are the main ones you're looking for.
in that vein, you'll probably also be after John Bell/Graham Maule who seem to write together; Richard Gillard (who wrote Brother Let me be your servant (now brother sister let me serve you); Bob Gilman (who wrote bind us together lord); Frances Kelly (who did wherever you go I will go); Michael Forster; Andrew moore; jack w Hayford (majesty worship his majesty);

Make me a channel of your peace is Sebastian Temple

And I think you'll find this version of Thorns in the straw is the besr you'll find out there.
(That's me that is, and DH)

Interesting discussion about gatekeepers - yy! I've come across this again and again. People begin to believe they almost own their church - they develop a sense of entitlement because they have served there so long, so get very proprietary about it especially if there is change in the air. They can be quite bullying in tactics hence nickels experience so sad that you were talked to like that.

Like pickle says, the best way is to deal with them gracefully. Any conflict tends to make things worse... But sometimes they do need to be challenged. I've had some hurtful experiences in the past with these 'power groups'.

Edd, I have loads of suggestions but don't want to just wade in with what I like. What sort of music do you like in general - what are your favourite bands - we might be able to find things with similar flavours. Love the suggestions so far - you can't go wrong with Stuart Townend.

And nickels version of Thorns in the Straw is indeed the best version of a great song

Not even "been there very long" - the latest CW was given her post and turned into a dictator who wouldn't let anyone turn off lights of lock doors when she was there (even though they'd done so for at least 3 years in the same situations)!

Thanks for the compliment on the singing the timing was a bit dodgy on the chorus because we'd never actually heard it before and I couldn't work it out

I have never heard that before Nickel, it is definitely the best version I have ever heard .

Lovely, Nickel ☺️

Are any of you single? I'm in the middle of a divorce at the moment and this is all new to me.

I'm single. Religion-wise it's a lot easier because my ex-h was somewhere in between not understanding my faith at all and being actively opposed to it so going it alone is 100% better (plus time to pray in the evenings once I've put dd to bed).

The only thing I worry about is becoming more selfish. Because being married meant I had to share and compromise and generally be a communal human being, which was good for my life of virtue. Being able to make all the decisions myself doesn't necessarily help me to be a better person.

I've been single for over 5 years now and it's been a real blessing. I would never have chosen to break up a marriage, but since ex left me with no warning and wouldn't agree to any counselling etc. I worked with the cards I was dealt and God has really been at work through my vulnerability and brought me so much joy.

Yes, my ex did similar. I'm just really struggling with being single and the concept of dating etc

I'm just nipping on here because I wanted to say an enormous thank you to Niminypiminy. I've been lurking (and sometimes posting) in the philosophy/religion section for years, with various names, and your posts were what convinced me to get over my horrible childhood experiences of evangelical fundamentalism and give Christianity another chance. You never posted to me directly but I lurked and read, and followed up some of your book reccomendations, and I think you might have changed my life. And it just occurred to me that you are completely unaware of it, and would probably like to know.

So thank you.

Oh Broomstick that is lovely! Well done niminy!
I sent a couple of emails last year to a church that had been pivotal for me in my youth. I don't think the message will have reached the individuals involved thirty five years ago, but the odd person may feel encouraged when working with youngsters now.

On a related note, a tip for people involved in youth ministry: if you tell a seven year old child that her family will be tortured forever in hell but that she can be saved if she turns her back on their sinful ways and follows Jesus, the outcome is less likely to be a embracing of Christianity and more likely that she decides that she'd prefer eternal torture with her mum than to flow such a cruel and nasty deity.

Broomstick, no kidding! Seems so obvious to me but fundamentalists are everwhere. I'm sorry you had that growing up and I'm so glad you have been able to find the love at the heart of the true Christian message.

Oh Broomstick that is so lovely of you. You have brought tears to my eyes. I don't know what to say except thank you and bless you - as you have blessed me by your words.

Your childhood experience of church sounds so horrible, that sort of fundamentalism is just cruel and hurtful and wrong - in every way.

Thanks for the tip broomstick, I'll remember that. seriously, what an awful abuse of privilege.

My last visit to church as a teen came after a preach on 'the wine has run out...' I was so depressed I missed the bit which was surely there about letting Jesus transform your life as he did the water... I just got more depressed and hopeless and dint go back!

Be careful what you preach...

Anyone else fascinated about how the message you prepare and the message received can vary so much?!

Nickel wow. cool
Thank you all for the suggestions. I will give it all a decent chance before I give up and go back to my stuck-in-the-mud ways! My spotify "up next" will not know what's hit it.
Any more thoughts? keep em coming! (MHD just tell me your top 3 tracks; I won't tell you if I don't agree )

amamma I'm not single (yet) but religion-wise it'd be a lot easier if I were. Similar situation as fink (except active opposition 100% in my case). Finding time / space to pray can be hard - just one of many issues! I hope you're ok. There's quite a lot of support on MN I think for the newly single... prayers and

broomstick, niminy did the same thing for me, except in my case I pestered her directly all the time we could start a fan club
(I'm not going to start singling out other people too, but she wasn't the only one, thank you all, you know who you are )

Growing up in Northern Ireland with a non-religious but culturally Anglican father who was divorced from my non-religious but culturally Catholic mother who raised me with her lesbian partner, I pretty much got to see the worst that Christianity in the UK has to offer. One of my friends at school used to play the organ in Ian Paisley's church. I think the Quakers were pretty much the only people who didn't condemn at least some of my family on a regular basis!

I did get an excellent cultural education in terms of knowing Bible stories which was useful for studying literature and art history.

But I do have to stick to either very high church or very liberal and inclusive worship styles or I get really uncomfortable.

I do think that the message intended v message received thing is fascinating. I was talking to someone who does lots of work in schools recently, and he was talking to a child who thought that you had to become a farmer if you were a Christian because all the Bible stories he'd heard involved farms or rural life

In a positive sense, the difference between what we preach and what people actually hear can be a great place for them to appropriate/reflect on faith without even realising it: so many times (and I know it's not just me, friends in ministry have mentioned it too) if I get any positive feedback from a talk I've given, people will say something like, 'I especially liked when you said x...' and I know full well that I didn't say x! I said y, which obviously got them making connections and so they came up with x themselves, although still thinking it was part of what I'd said! I don't know if that makes any sense - but when it happends to me it always strikes me as a real moment of grace, God working through my words and through the other person's mind without either of us having come up with the idea on our own.

On the other hand, I once made a throw away remark to some school kids (Year 8, I think) in connection with a moment of development in my own faith journey, which was far too nuanced and adult for them to understand, and three years or so later one of them came up to me and asked what I'd meant by it. He'd remembered my exact phrasing after three years! Taught me to be a bit more careful. Thankfully it was nothing damaging or worrying, but just the fact that someone had kept hold of a random snippet of a speech for so long took me aback.

amammabear I can't really help with the dating scene as I decided God was calling me to the single life so I haven't dated since the divorce. There are some obvious practical benefits and negatives of being single but I try to take all of it as a gift from God and a new opportunity for discipleship in a different way. Other people's prejudice and assumption, particularly in church (if you're divorced it must be because you didn't try hard enough to save your marriage etc.) can be hurtful, but I just develop a thicker skin in public and pray about it in private. Prayers for you.