Little girls in headacarves

[Tallulahoola]

Can anyone tell me why very young Muslim girls - Year 1 and above - wear headscarves and what it signifies?

I went to school with a lot of Muslim girls and a couple with very religious parents started wearing headscarves when they reached 13 or so. I always assumed this was because they had reached puberty so were considered to be young women, and as such were dressing modestly.

Skip to now and I see a lot of girls aged 5 and above wearing headscarves at the local primary schools. Is there a concept of a modesty at this age? Does it mean their parents are extremely religious? Or is it particular to certain communities (the parents are from Somalia and I think from Bangladesh, whereas the community I grew up around was Pakistani)

atlas quite a few reports published in the last year about the very real risk to covered Muslim women. Have a look.

I guess for adults it's your choice. Kids don't have that choice.

Why is this Islam bashing? All belief systems should stand up to scrutiny. I find the sight of kids covered very, very worrying and yes, I wince at the fact they cannot undertake playground sports not receive the sun properly. It's utterly unecessary.

DoinItFine what I'm saying is that by baptising a child into a religion you are making that child of a certain religion without it being their choice. My husband was baptised a Catholic. Obviously he then had to do all the rest of it - was sent to a Catholic school, confirmed, taken to church every weekend. He is quite happy to have been brought up that way but none of it was his choice. Catholic girls dress up as little brides for their first Communion. Jewish boys wear skullcaps. Hindu girls often have to dress modestly. Why is it Islam that prompts this virulent response? I'm as atheist as they come but this contempt for Islam makes me quite sad.

My DD will be free to wear a headscarf whenever she wants to. If she wears it from a young age, I will be pleased, as unfortunately she's going to have get used to people giving her the cold shoulder because of wearing hijab and looking Muslim

^

Really? But your dd may not want to become a Muslim full stop? I assume, she is free to reject the religion if she chooses?

Hijab is a religious obligation, as clearly laid out in the Quran and elaborated on in the hadith. I don't know why people come on these threads thinking they can school Muslim women. It's very patronising.

^^ But the Hadith is very conservative and is rejected by many scholars, I am no expert but I believe its the Hadith that is causing many of the issues we are all facing in Islam today.

"Whatatodo, getting a young girl to wear a bikini at the beach could be argued to be grooming to. Getting a girl to wax her legs and be 'perfectly manicured and pedicured' could be argued to be grooming too"

I dont agree with this either, I shudder seeing young girls done up to look like teenagers.

"I am very glad that I am liberated from those societal expectations that make some women's life miserable"

but its the womans own self esteem that is making some of them react that way. I also know plenty of women who couldnt give a fig about societal expectations.

I guess gasoline, that many of us feel that all religions have to modernise.

There is all sorts of stuff written in the Old Testament but it's not considered by most to be applicable now.

Any belief system that requires women to cover themselves is going to be problematic for many, many people. If this extends to little girls then it surely is time to re-think interpretations?

That is quite clearly oppressive and deliberately creating in them an expectation of conforming to a form of dress chosen for social and religious reasons
No, there is no oppression because there apparently is no force to become Muslim.

After all you are not born muslim are you? Its not a race but merely a religion.

We're all pretty accomplished women, yet we frequently get spoken to like dirt on here, all by posters who supposedly want to "liberate" Muslim women.

Well obviously people who do this are mis guided. Because whilst you may be exposed to the religion in no way are you indoctrinated into it, are you.

You really do have choice here don't you?

(BTW I personally find head scarfs extremely attractive and I have chosen to wear one, on occasion, one was particularly beautiful, with a gold trim my dsis brought back from Dubai)

DoinItFine what I'm saying is that by baptising a child into a religion you are making that child of a certain religion without it being their choice.

Sure.

But the equivalent of that is not forcing a 5 year old to cover her head.

It's choosing to raise a baby as a Muslim/Jew/Sikh/Buddhist.

The physical impact of Baptism is less than having a bath.

Its importance is spiritual. If you believe in that aspect.

If you don't, it's just words and water.

The equivalent of making a child cover her head in hijab would be forcing little girls to wear mantillas at all times in public.

Is that a thing?

No.

So there's no point in worrying about it.

There are plenty of weird and fucked up things Catholicism does, and I'm more than happy to talk about them.

But unless you take a Dawkinsite position that ALL religious faith is a form of brainwashing and abuse of children, then baptism is just not harmful.

Being forced to cover up your head and wear restrictive clothing is harmful for children.

Or girls, let's be honest. Boys are treated as actual people who count.

The problem with covering little girls is that it is harmful to them. That it restricts them in unacceptable ways.

It is not a spiritual objection. It is about child welfare.

I wouldn't blame Muslim women for being on the defensive about it. of course parents impose religion on their children but that's true of all religion, isn't it? People who have their children christened are making a decision for them as babies, aren't they?

Goodness no, myself and all my friends were baptised or christened, none of them attend church regularly or pray regularly or anything I think most of us would say we are lapsed and no one bats an eye. All my friends are at the same level, non of us were forced to go to church, I was taken a few times by my dm, Dad was atheist. If I wanted to pursue it I certainly know how too, but it was all very casual, loose and not the most imp part of growing up at all. I mean not a single person in my family would know if I prayed, or attended church or anything or care.

I certainly dont feel branded into any tribe at all, having once been baptised. I feel free to do what ever I want and if I wanted to suddenly become a muslim tomorrow I feel very free to do so.

Haven't read the whole thread.

I find it sad that such young girls - around 7 - are already wearing headscarves or jihabs. Let them enjoy their childhood!

I read an article that wearing jihabs etc - covering yourself up almost completely - leads to a serious lack of Vitamin D. (sun exposure).

Funnily enough, I was in a square by the market in Cairo a few years ago and a muslim couple in traditional dress had two little girls (around 6/7) dressed as what I would term "Disney princesses"

I understand why Muslim women get fed up with being put on the spot and assumptions made about their motives to cover but equally....

Please do not equate non Muslim western women's skepticism with racism or Islamophobia. 20 years ago it was very rare to see little girls covered up. Today it is quite common. That is a huge societal change to take on board in such a short time and it is perfectly legitimate to question it.

Another thing you have to consider (and one that should prove it has nothing to do with Islamophobia) we have been through all this ourselves.

We have been told by our own society that covering up = modesty = pious = good. We've taken our time but have finally seen through that faulty logic.

We've also been offered the same apologies and excuses and we know something fishy when we smell it.

Not everything can be a feminist choice and nor should it have to be. We live in cultures and our choices are only free within the context of what that culture offers us. The best we can hope to say is "I choose to shave/cover/wear makeup because it is a custom within my culture that I don't personally find harmful"

But let's not pretend that any truly free choices exist, be it the subtle coercion to make oneself more physically attractive or to cover our hair.

No choice is made outside of a cultural framework of value judgement.

It wouldn't seem right to have a thread about Muslim girls in hijab without including this:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=PMugZRxYDmc

It's absolutely lovely but sad that most of the comments are not about her playing.

If only MN put so much time and energy into denouncing those girls that I see every day carrying round Paul's Boutique handbags. They can't be doing it willingly. Must be brainwashing.

How come NO MUSLIM MEN WHATSOEVER choose - yes, CHOOSE - to cover themselves??? Yet women do?

Stop treating us as fools!!

I hate how anything interesting in here gets derailed by people clearly pushing an agenda and refusing to change their perception of what they perceive islam to be.not everyone thinks like this and its sad. I think if people dropped their ideas and actually listened to the women on here explaining then more understanding and less fear on both sides would make things better.

Eh noname

I can't think of a country where women have been tortured for not carrying a fancy enough handbag, but I can think of countries where women suffer greatly if they're not covered enough.

Hardly a comparison, and pretty offensive.

For the record, I hate seeing pre pubescent girls wearing hijab, it's completely Inappropiate IMO as it sends a message that the girls need to be "modest" when no child does. It's as Inappropiate as sending a 6 year old in make up, and "copying mummy" is no excuse or defence.

I think it provokes strong reaction because there are few such powerful symbols of the inequality between men and women in religion, and it's been taken to such extremes - from simple hair covering (which was pretty much the norm in every society at the time for lots of practical reasons) to appalling practices such as niqab and burqas.

LastGirlOnTheLeft: amidst discussion of young girls wearing a scarf on this thread in terms of oppression and restriction (as well as other interpretations, copying Mummy, an affirmative identity etc) there has been no talk of the circumcision of boys.

"it's completely Inappropiate IMO as it sends a message that the girls need to be "modest" when no child does" I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. And yet on a thread within the last week numerous posters said that in a water fight involving a few households in the street 6 or 7 was the highest age at which a young girl should be seen out of the house without a T shirt or her top covered. There were almost no challenges even when one poster talked about the age at which 'they should take responsibility for themselves ' in terms of not attracting people looking at them. And yet a thread about Muslims covering young girls...,

My understanding is that the injunctions to modest dress apply to Muslim men as well as women. It does seem to be only women who choose/are expected to follow it.

The absolute crux here is choice, the choice or not to where the veil is secondary to the first choice of whether to be a Muslim or not.

Thats the Key, that's the Key to the freedom of choice isn't it.

I would never ever dream of forcing my DC to follow a faith. They are freepeople with their own free will and they will want to follow life in their own way.

I have listened to Muslim women on here user. You all have a choice. Many of you have converted.

You simply have no idea what life is like for the millions of women forced into this attire. Who have no choice. Who, by and large detest it.

I guess I choose to listen to those women.

And little girls in veils? Outrageous. But I walk on by, silently questioning the lunacy of a world in which it's acceptable to teach young girls the need to cover their little bodies and wear clothes that restrict their movement.

Charlie, a head scarf does not restrict movement. For goodness, it's a head scarf, like a hat! Why would you think it restricts movement?!!

If my daughter says she wants to wear an item of clothing, I will let her. So if she wants to wear a headscarf, I certainly will let her. Just as I would let her wear shorts or a dress, or a dungaree.

Putting I believe very strongly in many things, such as good manners, etiquette, healthy eating and my faith. I will teach all my children all of the above, because they are so important to me. It's then up to them if they want to continue implementing that in their life. Every person, child or not, has the freedom to remain as a Muslim or not. No one is forcing anyone. I also teach my children about atheism, agnosticism and other faiths. My child has a right to know.

I wonder though, what do you tell your children about God? Do you encourage them not to believe in God? Or do you teach them about the different faiths?

Putting I believe very strongly in many things, such as good manners, etiquette, healthy eating and my faith. I will teach all my children all of the above, because they are so important to me. It's then up to them if they want to continue implementing that in their life. Every person, child or not, has the freedom to remain as a Muslim or not. No one is forcing anyone. I also teach my children about atheism, agnosticism and other faiths. My child has a right to know.

I wonder though, what do you tell your children about God? Do you encourage them not to believe in God? Or do you teach them about the different faiths?