Little girls in headacarves

[Tallulahoola]

Can anyone tell me why very young Muslim girls - Year 1 and above - wear headscarves and what it signifies?

I went to school with a lot of Muslim girls and a couple with very religious parents started wearing headscarves when they reached 13 or so. I always assumed this was because they had reached puberty so were considered to be young women, and as such were dressing modestly.

Skip to now and I see a lot of girls aged 5 and above wearing headscarves at the local primary schools. Is there a concept of a modesty at this age? Does it mean their parents are extremely religious? Or is it particular to certain communities (the parents are from Somalia and I think from Bangladesh, whereas the community I grew up around was Pakistani)

LastGirl:

"How come NO MUSLIM MEN WHATSOEVER choose - yes, CHOOSE - to cover themselves??? Yet women do?

Stop treating us as fools!! "

Well you are clearly wrong. My husband and my male family members choose to cover up too. They wear the equivalent of what a female wears - a loose long outer covering. And in fact is looks very similar to my outer cloak. The only difference is I cover my hear, and they don't.

So why don't they? And I am not treating you as fools. I genuinely do not understand why it is different clothing for men and women. Seriously, how many Muslim men wear this loose clothing? Not very many. EVERY time I have seen a woman covered, her husband has been wearing western clothes. YOU are treating me like a fool!

I didn't see that thread Blu, and I can't relate to those people either. My daughter is six, and she his bare whenever she wants to around our home, and certainly topless she with her pals in the summer. I want her freedom.

LastGirl the majority of practicing Muslim men I know wear this special loose clothing. There are also plenty of non- practicing Muslim men and women who don't wear hijab or a loose outer cloak.

Why would I be treating to you like a fool, by sharing my experiences with you? Why would I lie? Please take up my offer to meet you in person. I'll even bring some homemade cake along too :)

But if someone wears a pair of (loose ish) trousers and an untucked tee-shirt or shirt, they are fairly modestly dressed. And probably what 80% of men casually dressed wear. There is a bigger range in ladies fashions, and so it may well stand out more than a bloke dressed modestly.

LastGirl my daughter also wears no trousers, short sleeves and sometimes topless in the summer. But she does have her moods as a toddler. Last Sunday when it was hot, we went to a farm, and she insisted she wanted to wear a cardigan and her tights! We didn't let her, and she blew a huge tantrum. In the end, we gave in. So there she was on the farm, with her tights on, and people like you around us probably assumed we wanted her to wear, when we so didn't want her to! It seems you just can't win!

Thanks timegate. You know, I would love to meet you as (despite being distinctly non-intelligent) I do love to learn. ok, you are persuading me that my anecdotal evidence is probably crap. But you know, I hate hate HATE women being treated it even perceived as second class, and I do think the traditional Muslim female attire affirms that awful view for many men with bad intentions.

Oops...I meant or.

Mmnnnn....yes I would have assumed that. Food for thought.

LastGirl I didn't answer your question about why Muslim men don't cover their hair when women do. It's because God didn't ask them to, and he asked Muslim women to. You don't have to do that, because you don't believe in the God I do (and everyone has the freedom to believe or not to believe). I believe in God, I chose to believe in God, I still have the choice not to believe in him, but I do, and that's why I will do as he asks of me. I don't expect you to understand that fully, but I would hope you could respect my decision to believe?

Wow so many typos!! Trying to type on a tiny phone with big fingers and a little girl sleeping on me is not so easy!!!

Yes of course I do. I accepted Christ as my personal saviour many years ago, and would definitely hope that people respected that too.

Thank you for chatting to me, Timegate. I think my problem was that Muslim women seem so voiceless and faceless (often literally) that we put our own opinions into their/your heads. You really have made me think about my own prejudice.

I just can't get het up about this.

If it is the child's religion, why shouldn't they wear it? If I was religious (I'm not) and dressed a certain way, the likelihood is that I work dress my child that way. Some religions dress more modestly than others etc.

I have a certain 'style' and way I like to dress. I tend to dress my ds in clothes that are not dissimilar to what his dad wears. Obviously this isn't religious but this is just what I know, so it's what I chose. Surely these parents are doing the same? But for religious reasons?

I really don't see the issue with protecting modesty if that's what you believe and what you want to do. I'm not in the slightest bit religious but I am not ever going to say no your child shouldn't wear a head scarf because I don't like it.

I have seen toddlers and young girls in much worse things than headscarves ffs. I would rather see a little girl in her headscarf, than a little girl in a top with an awful slogan for example. But I would never say anything because it's not my child and it's not my choice.

I really do believe that some children and young women will choose to wear them. They can, and do look incredibly beautiful on women. I love the fact that you can have a different pattern or style every day, besides being religious they're a fabulous accessory imo. I suppose the only reason I wouldn't wear one myself is in a bit of fear that I might offend anyone because I am not religious.

I do think if you want to wear one, for whatever reason, religious, bad hair day or otherwise then do it. If you don't want to wear one regardless of religion, whatever else, then don't.

Can we not just have freedom of choice to wear what we want and what we personally feel comfortable in?

Last and timegate as well as having lived abroad in a majority Muslim area, I'm in a Christian/Muslim women's group. It's great and an ideal place to ask about different people's practices. I know there are inter faith groups in a lot of areas.

LastGirl I would love to meet you too, I'm certain there's a lot I can learn from you :)

I also HATE women being treated as second class citizens, in fact my life long ambition is to setup some type of charity to empower women. However, the more I studied the Islamic faith, quickly I realised that it was my culture ( Indian) that was treating me like a second class citizen, and not my faith. And the best way to empower women like me (Indian Muslims) was to teach them more about their faith, where they are treated like equals. Yes our dress code does slightly differ to men, but honestly it is such a minor thing. It's like does wearing a hat really make any difference to how you are treated, or how much respect you are given?

The big things that are problematic in my Indian culture (and not Islam) are: treating women like servants, huge expectations of in-laws, domestic violence, honour killing, not allowing women to be educated etc etc. These are the issues that need addressing in the Indian culture, and Islam is completely against them!

To give you a personal example, I was the first person from my extended family who went to university. My extended family had objections, and my dad turned around and told them that actually the Prophet told us that all men and women must seek knowledge, and the most learned person at the time of the prophet was his wife Aisha, and men from afar would come to study by her. They were all a bit gob smacked, because in our Indian culture, the role of the woman is restricted to being a wife, daughter in law and a mother, and you essentially spend your life serving your husband and in-laws. You are also traditionally meant to live with your inlaws, which causes huge huge problems! (As you can probably imagine!)

Islam on the other hand obligates a man to provide a seperate house for his wife! The elderly Indians from my community don't like to hear this, and pretend this doesn't exist in the Muslim faith.

Time I had NO idea!! I always thought Mohammed was very bad to marry such a young girl. Actually, that is STILL a problem I have. She was nine. Also, because I am Christian, I believe Jesus is the ULTIMATE REVELATION. And because Islam came after Him, I find it very hard to believe (I hope you forgive me for this) that Islam has come from God. I REALLY do not mean to offend....but because I believe Christianity and Jesus are the ultimate, I cannot see Islam as true. I do hope you understand.

But as far as women go...in my own Christian faith women have been - and still to this very day - discriminated against and silenced to a degree that is no longer acceptable in the modern world.

One of the reasons I love Jesus is because He always looked out for women and loved them and liked them. Nothing He did, ever degraded us. He was an absolute rebel in that way, and I love Him passionately for it. It actually hurts me to see the way He is degraded, when He only ever showed respect and compassion.

I think we have more in common than I would ever have believed.

Drspouse, that sounds brilliant: I as a Christian would very much like to get to know and talk to Muslim women. I would learn so much!! And maybe learn not to be such a judgmental idiot!

time do you honestly feel that the Islamic faith promotes equality of women?

I find that fascinating and I don't mean that to sound patronising.

As an atheist, I have huge problems with the status of women in all Abrahamic religions. Some are modernising faster than others. But when I see women covered, I really struggle. Really struggle to understand how this in any way is a good thing.

The women I know from Iran are baffled that women in the UK would choose to cover themselves.

Woodburningstove I'd like to second you on that one! The person saying its early indoctrination is quick to jump to that conclusion. My husband is a Muslim convert. His ex wife is a Muslim convert. Their daughters are being raised Muslim. There's no fretful need to force modesty 🙄 They LOVE to dress up like their mummy, and that includes pretty hijabs. When they're with us they love to wear my hair clips and jewellery. It's what they see and they feel grown up or dressed up going around wearing the things they see other females in their lives wearing. Far from it being an indoctrination, I see it as liberating. They're little girls imitating the people they love 🙄 Grown assed adults should try keep their cynical scrutiny for each other and not aim it at children.

Lastgirl I completely understand your faith and perspective , and I am certainly not offended by it! I also love Jesus (peace be upon him) and Moses (peace be upon him). I read about them at least once a week in the Quran! They were amazing human beings who put everyone's well being and welfare before themselves. It is hurtful to see them being disrespected.

We do have a lot more in common than we think. The abrahamic faiths have a lot in common!

With regards to the prophet marrying a 9 year old, the validity of this has been scrutinised and questioned. I know my local scholar believes she was actually 18 when she married the prophet, and not 9. Whichever age it was, at that time no one thought it was odd, and none of his enemies used it against him. So it's more probable that it was actually 18, and had been mis-quoted.

I'd recommend you read a biography of the Prophet Muhammad. There's one by Karen Armstrong (a Christian academic) too. You'll find he is very similar to Jesus, especially in his mannerisms, care and love towards all.

Charlie yes I actually believe that!

I'd recommend everyone watches this (it's only 45 seconds):

Why do women wear hijab? (It's the daily show from America), sorry about poor quality:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vWozY1N-d14

Also, she has another TED video which is worth a watch:

What do you see when you look at me? https://www.ted.com/talks/daliamogaheddwhatdooyouthinkkwhenyouulookatt_me?language=en#t-614406

You know what, Time, I am going to order that book and read it, and then let you know what I think about it. I am so glad you told me this about Aisha, because the BIGGEST problem I had with Islam is that the founder might be a paedophile. And even though I am Christian, I did not want to think over a billion people were following what a paedophile had to say.

About Jesus....I just LOVED how you spoke about Him. You talked about Him with more respect than most so-called Christians do. It actually brought me to tears, the respect you have for Our Lord. Far more than most people.

Thank you, Time!!!

So lovely to hear that Muslim women all over the world have complete freedom and autonomy. It's wonderful to hear that they can wear what they want, do what they want, live how they want. Such good news.

LastGirl you are very welcome! Your post bought tear to my eyes! It was an honour to chat to you

timegate are you sure you meant to link that video? Seeing as it is arguing against the hijab in the intercut comments.