Little girls in headacarves

[Tallulahoola]

Can anyone tell me why very young Muslim girls - Year 1 and above - wear headscarves and what it signifies?

I went to school with a lot of Muslim girls and a couple with very religious parents started wearing headscarves when they reached 13 or so. I always assumed this was because they had reached puberty so were considered to be young women, and as such were dressing modestly.

Skip to now and I see a lot of girls aged 5 and above wearing headscarves at the local primary schools. Is there a concept of a modesty at this age? Does it mean their parents are extremely religious? Or is it particular to certain communities (the parents are from Somalia and I think from Bangladesh, whereas the community I grew up around was Pakistani)

whatadrin said!!! Totally!!
I dont know whats wrong with some people at the moment. They have made their minds up based on missinformation and propagandist shite in the press. Ask, the answer has come from the horses mouth. The sooner barriers are broken down the better things will get.

Doinitfine, if you live in London, and feel up to it, I'd like to discuss this with you face to face. Do message me please (any anyone else who wants to meet up to discuss further).

Bye (really going this time! ;))

Because why do little girls need to cover their boob area? They dont have boobs they are little girls? Sexulisation? Oppression?

I also make a mean cake! #justsaying

Wish i was in london!! Enjoy!

I never said there was anything wrong with bikinis, why assume I think there is? I was pointing something out. You can't attack one end of the spectrum without attacking the other.

And no, it does not confirm the prejudice that women collude in the oppression of women and girls. Those who would deduce that are brainwashed by scaremongering tactics by the mainstream media. It's been said before, ask a Muslim woman, don't just speculate and assume.

But as before, thread has been answered.

Because why do little girls need to cover their boob area? They dont have boobs they are little girls? Sexulisation? Oppression

It certainly would be oppression if people said it was impirtant to enforce it nice and young so they could get used to what God would expect of them when they got to puberty.

Obviously.

Not what god expected them to do. But society expected them to do. Obsessed by what society expects of women.

Oppressed*

" I also make a mean cake! "

Nadia! How are you, my lovely?

But there is no expectation that little girls must be taught from 5 years old to wear a bikini top.

Yet is is apparently absolute common sense from the "horse's mouth" that tiny girls should learn to cover their heads before they can read.

That is quite clearly oppressive and deliberately creating in them an expectation of conforming to a form of dress chosen for social and religious reasons.

timegate you have given me some interesting insights. Thank you.

If you don't mind, may I ask what is it like to wear a jilbab and headscarf in very hot weather?

I don't give a monkeys about what other people might think of my 'summer body', clothes and appearance. In fact I'm quite proud of my 'imperfect' body, which has grown and fed several children. I don't think that a headscarf and modest dress is necessary to feel the liberation that we both describe. Respectfully, I'm always quite puzzled to hear this as an argument for a prescriptive form of dress.

As a follower of a different religion I do get where you are coming from on the 'God' argument though.

I dont agree. My 4yr old has learnt what is private and what we shouldn't see.

It actually cooler to cover your skin in loose clothing when it's really sunny than to take clothing off. I became Muslim when I was 16 so Iknow the difference in wearing shorts/skirts in summer and wearing the abaya and headscarf. Most of the heat comes from when the sunlight touches your skin so my hands tend to be the hottest part of my body whereas everywhere gets to feel the light breeze. Sometimes I wear normal clothes underneath and other times I have worn just a long pair of boots and hope I don't fall over. We tend to have different scarf materials for summer and winter which seems to help me keep my head and neck cool.

DoinIt oh gosh. Sorry but what of Judaism where the same applies to Orthodox Jews? the boys who have to grow their hair and wear a kippah? Is that oppressive and deliberately creating in them an expectation of conforming to a form of dress chosen for social and religious reasons? And what of Sikh boys who wear turbans from a young age? Primary school in fact. I'd love to hear your views on these??

Clearly you are one of those who believe in the mainstream media, brainwashed to the max.

I'm all for free speech but you're so obviously biased in your responses as they all seem anti-Islamic and not anti-religion. Want to bash a certain ruling of a religion? Then bash them all and not single out one because the Abrahamic religions stem from similar ideologies so it won't be hard to find similar examples of the same ruling.

I just wear looser flowing clothes in Summer.

A top tip for cooling generally, when it is very hot, is to put your under scarf (this is like a big stretchy headband that keeps your hair in place) in very cold water, then when you put it on, it keeps your head lovely and cool.

Wearing a fluffy hijab in winter is amazing. To never have cold ears is brilliant. Likewise, my hair doesn't get wet in the rain.

Someone mentioned Nadiya up thread. I confess that when I saw her and her her husband on a front cover of a magazine, I teared up because it was so lovely and yet so rare to see such positive representatives of Muslim life.

I've known quite a few of the Muslim posters on here for years. We're all pretty accomplished women, yet we frequently get spoken to like dirt on here, all by posters who supposedly want to "liberate" Muslim women.

People can have whatever views they want, but Muslim women are not lesser women and we do not exist for you to take your anger out upon, Backingvocals.

My 4yr old has learnt what is private and what we shouldn't see.

"What we shouldn't see?"

OK, easy to see why younare fine with children being oppressed by their parents, since you are into that kind of thing.

Spare me the examples of other kinds of religious oppression of children.

Yes, they are all awful.

But let's not pretend that Jewish or Sikh boys are being brought up to be second class citizens.

And yes, I know non-religious western girls are also raised to be submissive and defer to men.

No amount of whatabouttery makes it OK to force a 5 year old little girl to cover her head to get her used to it.

No part of a 5 year old's body is "what we shouldn't see".

Why on earth do you assume we are bringing up our daughters to be second class citizens? My daughters are second class to no one, thank you very much.

You might view Muslim women and girls as second class, but that's not what we think of ourselves.

Also, I take it you don't approve of the NSPCC teaching school children as young as 5 about the underwear rule then?

Shame you believe Muslim girls are second class citizens. Women are given more respect in Islam than they are in Christianity for example. Again, believing the bullshit mainstream media. I do feel sorry for you and your close-mindedness.

You know where class systems operate? In Hinduism. Not Islam. So much so that in some Hindu cultures a woman in a lower caste can't marry a boy of a higher caste. Hindu women in some cultures are also brought up to serve their husbands and in laws only - essentially they are housemaids. Please do your research, stop regurgitating things from The Sun and spewing your propaganda here.

And I see you haven't addressed my point about you being anti Islamic. You're an Islamaphobe.

Nadia wanna be more like!

DoInItFine, I'm sorry to break your bubble but the vast majority of Muslim women are NOT treated like second citizens! Whatever gave you that idea? And do you realise how ridiculous and insulting that sounds?? Do you have any academic evidence to support your ludicrous claim?

In case you didn't know, Muslim women were given rights 1400 years ago, including the right to own their own wealth, the right to their own freedom, the right to attend university, and the right to inherit. In contrast, these rights were given to British women in the 1900s. The first female attendant to university was in 1950s!! Muslim women created and built their own universities over 1000 years ago.

I am not denying that there are a very very small minority of women in Muslim majority countries who may not like the laws of the country, but they do have the freedom to move. Similarly, there are people in this country who don't like the laws and policies that the Conservative party has bought in (think doctors for example), and they are expected to either suck it up or leave. So this happens in every country. Singling that out to Muslim majority nations and blaming Islam for it, is seriously alarming, dangerous and illogical.

I repeat my offer, please do meet up with me so we can discuss in person. And I do promise to make some home made cake too

Also, as Aldrin mentioned, yes it's in Hinduism that they have the caste system, and many women are treated as second class citizens. And that's why this is very common in the Indian culture too, and there is evidence to prove it.

I am Indian, and the Indian culture does treat majority of women like second class citizens. We are not supposed to be educated, our first duty is to cook for the family and look after the in-laws and husband, & basically once we are married we effectively are expected to become slaves for the in-laws.

I am very very fortunate that my family are practising Muslim and have broken away from the traditional Indian culture, and taught us about how Islam tells us to live, which is that women have a right to be educated, in fact the prophet told it was compulsory to be educated. We have the right to have financial freedom and personal freedom. We have the right to have our own homes away from the in-laws. The in-laws hold no rights over us at all. This is in complete contradiction to the Indian culture, and even some of my own aunts who are not as practicing Muslims can't understand why my parents allowed me to pursue several degrees, and 'allowed' me to live and work abroad before marrying.

The problem is that some people who haven't read anything about Islam, blame Islam instead of the culture for the second class treatment of Indian women for example. This can't be more further away from the truth. Islam is empowering for the vast majority of Indian Muslim women. If that wasn't the case, then there wouldn't be so many Indian Muslim women, and so many female converts to Islam.

timegate can I just say I've just read this whole thread and find your posts interesting and thought provoking, you also sound lovely. thanks for being a voice of reason.

Can I ask a question?

I have recently moved but lived in a very affluent area that has over the years become densely populated by Muslim's.
The majority of women don't seem to work. Is that more of an indication of the affluence of the area, or is it normal for the women to stay at home?

I honestly think that some of the broad statements made in this thread are against common sense - -- and really have a narrow view of other faiths. So you don't want people to judge you because of your faith but you freely state that Women are given more respect in Islam than in Christianity and highlighting what is wrong with other faiths and religions. Sorry but I am a Christian and take deep offence at being judged in that way. you are no better than anyone else and could you stop looking down at people. We are all people, whatever our faith and/or non faith. If your position is that YOU are better that other people the conversation will not be a conversation. It will be a monologue focuses on how superior you are.

Timegate - your responses are so informative and balanced, well done for so articulately explaining things!

I live in an Arab Muslim country, women are certainly not 2nd class citizens. The local women work, drive, go out, attend university, everything the males do too.

We went to a traditional event a while ago where the styles of dress were explained and we got to try them on - the jilbab was beautifully cool in such a hot country! And some of the designs in the shops are gorgeous, intricate embroidery on the sleeves so definitely fashionable.

I've never seen a young child covered here either.......