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Original poster

Little girls in headacarves

461 replies

Tallulahoola · 19/07/2016 16:17

Can anyone tell me why very young Muslim girls - Year 1 and above - wear headscarves and what it signifies?

I went to school with a lot of Muslim girls and a couple with very religious parents started wearing headscarves when they reached 13 or so. I always assumed this was because they had reached puberty so were considered to be young women, and as such were dressing modestly.

Skip to now and I see a lot of girls aged 5 and above wearing headscarves at the local primary schools. Is there a concept of a modesty at this age? Does it mean their parents are extremely religious? Or is it particular to certain communities (the parents are from Somalia and I think from Bangladesh, whereas the community I grew up around was Pakistani)

OP posts:
LastGirlOnTheLeft · 29/07/2016 23:27

Good night Time. xx Sleep tite.

timegate · 29/07/2016 23:28

LastGirl that's the best compliment anyone has ever paid me Blush. If I could have even 1% of the goodness that he had (peace be upon him), then I would consider myself to be very fortunate.

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 29/07/2016 23:33

Time If woman in a niquab spoke to me, I obviously wouldn't ignore them! That would be so rude to anyone.

My point was I'd have no idea how to approach someone with a covered face because how can I even tell if they are in the mood to be approached IYSWIM?

Charlieismydarlin · 29/07/2016 23:35

time it is frankly silly to suggest that a face covering doesn't separate you from society. Of course it does. I can't even see if these women are smiling. We communicate with our faces.

It also strikes me as a huge secure risk at the school gate. How does anyone know who anyone is?!?!

Anyway, for what it's worth, I have tried to smile at the fully covered women but for whatever reason, they don't look at me at all - won't even acknowledge my face. So my smiles are unnoticed. Perhaps they feel I'm a lesser women because I wear shirts and tshirt....

timegate · 29/07/2016 23:37

SpecialAgent that's a good point! Can you tell when you phone someone whether they want to talk or not? My husband is not very good at reading tone of voice but I'm great at that. I can tell immediately whether someone is in the mood or not, just by the tone of greeting. I don't have evidence, but I think generally women are very good at reading tone of voice and body language.

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 29/07/2016 23:39

Definitely going to sleep now!! Time, I want to tell you that you, in my opinion anyway, reflect Jesus! I feel very honored to have 'met' you, and I see what you put up with. I am also proud - very proud - to share my gender/ sex with you. Thanks be to God for you.

BertrandRussell · 29/07/2016 23:40

I find it fascinating that my posts are being ignored. Nobody is prepared to put their heads above the parapet and say that yes, all Muslim women are completely free to dress, behave and live exactly as they want to. Because we all know it's not true. And all this "oh i love wearing a headscarf because it's so fashionable, and the niqab is so cool in hot weather, and of course my little girl just wants to copy mummy" is all bullshit.

21RomeoDone · 29/07/2016 23:42

Nobody can speak for "all Muslim women" that's probably why no one is answering you. They can only speak from their own experiences.

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 29/07/2016 23:43

Time The difference is I already know someone I'm calling, as I don't have any friends who cover their faces, it would be introducing myself, and I just wouldn't know how to go about it. Obviously if this was a mum of DC's friends, I'd have an excuse, but I can't think of another scenario where I'd feel comfortable.

timegate · 29/07/2016 23:43

Charlie if a school ever doubted a woman's identity, they'd ask her to lift her veil. Problem solved.

I'm sorry to hear you've had that experience, and honestly I'm a bit surprised. Are you sure they did smile back but obviously you couldn't see the smile? Maybe next time try a hello?

"Perhaps they feel I'm a lesser women because I wear shirts and tshirt...."

Why would you think that? What have they done to give you that impression that they think less of you because of the way you dress?

Muslim women know and have experienced how it feels to be judged based on our clothing. I can say confidently we are the least likely group to judge anyone based on their clothing or appearance.

timegate · 29/07/2016 23:47

Special I understand, do you never call anyone for the first time? Someone you don't know?

I'm always calling up people I don't know. Especially for work. But even outside of work, like today I called my new fitness instructor.

BertrandRussell · 29/07/2016 23:48

"Nobody can speak for "all Muslim women" that's probably why no one is answering you. They can only speak from their own experiences."
Really? Most people can speak from wider knowledge than their own experience. I call bullshit.

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 29/07/2016 23:51

Time Of course, but the people I call who I've literally never met before, how would I even know? For one I expect anyone to be courteous if I'm calling them in their work capacity, but it's not like there's some secret 'I'm a Muslim with my face covered' codeword Grin

DoinItFine · 29/07/2016 23:51

Several people have spent this whole thread speaking on behalf of all Muslim women.

Human brains have incredible abilities to recognise and read human faces.

To cover your face in public is an act of overt hostility and separation.

To force women to do it (as is done to millions of women around the world, including in the UK, is to seek to erase them.

To choose to wear a symbol of female oppression is pretty sick.

Hijab, meh.

Covering your head because your hair is immodest to your woman hating god, fine.

But covering your face? No.

I don't want to ban face covering.

But where it us a gender specific attempt to make women invisible, unrecognisable, faceless, then it is a form of evil.

timegate · 29/07/2016 23:57

Bert In accordance to the Islamic faith, all Muslim women have the freedom to dress how they wish to. (It's up to them, and only them, if they choose to obey or reject God's command on the dress code; and they have the freedom to decide which they want to do).

However, there are a few (3?) Muslim majority states that have implemented a female dress code (similar to the one In the Islamic faith) and made it into a nation wide law. This is not Islamic, because it doesn't give women the freedom to reject it, and the government of that country needs to get that law changed.

This is why leading Muslim academics have said that countries like Ireland and Canada are more closer to the Islamic faith, guidelines and values than Muslim majority countries, see this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/10888707/Ireland-leads-the-world-in-Islamic-values-as-Muslim-states-lag.html

Right I'm really out now, good night everyone! Have a lovely weekend! Smile

blueistheonlycolourwefeel · 29/07/2016 23:58

My son has asked why women have a scarf over their heads or their faces. I have told him that they believe that is how God wants them to dress. He accepted that and was not traumatised by it. End of story.

Radyward · 29/07/2016 23:58

My impression is start them early and they will have less choice to rebel iykwim. It's nearly an indoctrination of a sort for want of a better word .those kids don't have a free choice as they are too little to make a choice for themselves. It's been made for them. It's abhorrent to me.
It's like a modesty revolution is sweeping over west er n Europe with attacks in France of women viewed inappropriate or in Germany too. I am scared at the future a little bit and altho I despise the muck that is geordie shore rejoice now in the freedom they have to show what they want .
Full veils . Whatever ADULT women want to do.

timegate · 30/07/2016 00:00

Special I understand. Ok next time you are out, just say Hi, and talk about the weather like we all do Smile see what they say!

If you are in London, and have time, I can arrange for you to meet my niqab wearing friend, she'd love to talk to you I'm sure :)

BertrandRussell · 30/07/2016 00:02

As I said. So lovely to know that all
Muslim women- except in 3 Islamic states- are completely free to dress, act and live however they want to. Such a relief.

DoinItFine · 30/07/2016 00:04

Muslim women know and have experienced how it feels to be judged based on our clothing. I can say confidently we are the least likely group to judge anyone based on their clothing or appearance.

LOL

Also, speaking on behalf of Muslim women.

timegate · 30/07/2016 00:07

Radyward

'My impression is start them early and they will have less choice to rebel iykwim'

You must be living in a different world to me if you believe children and teens have less choice to rebel against the norms of society! My 4 year old rebels pretty much all day long! And gets her way half the time!

If for example a 12-25 year old girl doesn't want to wear hijab anymore, she won't wear it anymore. We live in England for goodness sake, not India! It also doesn't make any theological sense for a person to continue wearing hijab when they don't want to - you either wear it with your heart in it, or take it off. That's what Islam says. There's no concept of forcing anyone to do any religious act or worship in Islam.

DoinItFine · 30/07/2016 00:08

Ireland! PMSL

So we're clear then, that Islam doesn't consider women to be human beings deserving of human rights.

Because the legal situation of all women in Ireland is massively compromused by a nasty misogynist Constitution written by religious fundamentalists.

Glad we've got that strsight.

hambo · 30/07/2016 00:09

The thing is, having my history as a British person, my heritage is such that it was my formothers that fought for every tiny little bit of power that women in the UK currently enjoy. And that included the right to wear trousers as we became emancipated so did our clothes. And to see women in full coverage or even covering the hair offends me hugely.I see women set back centuries.

timegate · 30/07/2016 00:09

DoInItFine
How many Muslim women have you met and talked to?

I am basing my judgement on over 700 Muslim women I have met and talked to in my life time. And that statistically is actually quite a good number (although not a random sample).

BertrandRussell · 30/07/2016 00:11

"There's no concept of forcing anyone to do any religious act or worship in Islam."
Wow.

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