To anyone who stopped believing....

[MessyBun247]

Why? Just curious really

No doubt. I just looked and can't see any mention of Mohammad splitting the moon into two with his fingers, though.

A long long time ago, if there was such a thing as god he wouldnt let people suffer the way he does.

I visited a mosque once, horrible place of segregation

I went to a toilet once. Horrible place of segregation.

I went to a mosque once. I noticed lots more than just the segregation.

I lost my faith, after crying to god on my kneed, night after night to reveal himself to me in the same way as he apparently did to the other people in my evangelical church. The moment I gave up and realise it was all bollocks, I finally felt that all-encompassing peace in my soul that I had been searching for. Kinda ironic, I guess, that I found peace once I stopped trying to believe.

Since then, the utter horror of the Christian faith has occurred to me on many an occasion. The bit that freaks me out most is the "free will" hypocrisy. So god tells everyone that they have free will to believe in him or not, but that if they don't they burn in fire for all eternity, even if they're a really good person who did nothing but kind and selfless acts their whole life. How the fuck is that free will?! "Do what you want but you'll suffer if you don't choose the thing I tell you to."

Or how about the fact that you can only get to heaven by worshipping god. Fed the homeless.? Meh. Solved world hunger? Meh. Gave all your worldly good to the less fortunate? Meh. Sodomised children but accepted god - oooh, nice, welcome to heaven! What sort of narcissistic navel-gazing god works that way?

So I have no time for the Christian god. These days I'm an atheist Jew. The great thing about Reform Judaism is that it teaches that you should be a good person because it's the right thing to do, not because of any offered reward. That it's okay to question your faith and even god himself. I still don't believe in god but if I'm going to be associated with any religion, at least Judaism aligns with my personal moral compass.

Cross post - I did go to an Orthodox synagogue once. The segregation there made me so very angry it's a wonder I made it through my nephew's bar mitzvah without exploding.

"The great thing about Reform Judaism is that it teaches that you should be a good person because it's the right thing to do, not because of any offered reward"

Do you really need a religion to teach you to be a good person?

CoteDAzur FYI: The splitting of the moon was a miracle attributed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad, derived from the Quranic verses 54:1-2, and mentioned by Muslim traditions such as the Asbab al-nuzul.

You most certainly do not need religion to be good, worryingly religion can actually get good people to do bad things.

If you actually read that Surah, you will see that it is not "attributed" to Mohammad at all.

That whole section of Quran sounds like someone's acid trip, frankly, and talks about Noah, warnings, "the hour has come" etc, and looks like it's talking about a future catastrophe. Definitely nothing Mohammad is supposed to have done.

FWIW in such discussions, I find that a bit less Googling and a bit more actual reading of the Quran is quite helpful.

Stupid nitpicking, CoteD'Azur.

Allah "performed the miracle" of splitting the moon on Mohammed's behalf when he (M) was challenged to do something miraculous.

Yes, of course it sounds like the ravings of someone on an acid trip. As does the entire Koran and associated books.

The fact that enormous numbers of people believe such crap to be literally true - to the degree that they come up with explanations for why half the world missed the "miracle" - is a problem and an affront to human dignity and rationality in 2016.

And your comment about segregated toilets is fatuous and ignorant.

CoteDAzur, I actually agree with the comment about your interpretation of the Quran. But my reply was in reference to a post about someone's interpretation of the Quran's amazing scientific understanding. ie you can rubbish interpretations of its scientific claims in the same way you can read the book and rubbish the interpretations of mohammed splitting of the moon.

Yes I have read a lot of the Quran (not all) but my interpretation of it or any holy book, is actually irrelevant because its about other people's interpretations of it. So intelligent googling does enlighten us as to what other people opinions are, although I got the info about splitting the moon from the prominent muslim Mehdi Hasan. And it does seem that the mainstream interpretation are that Muhammad did split the moon.

"intelligent googling does enlighten us as to what other people opinions are"

Yes that is useful, if you need or care for other people's opinions. I'm equidistant (and very far) to all religions, but I do know that Islam is very clear that there is supposed to be no "other people" between the Muslim and his Quran. If I were to believe, I think I would go with that approach.

"my reply was in reference to a post about someone's interpretation of the Quran's amazing scientific understanding. "

The surah you refer to talks about a miracle or a prophecy. It is not about anything science can prove or disprove. I understand what you wanted to do but it wasn't a good example.

There has always been this propaganda belief that Quran is scientifically accurate, miraculously, which must mean that it is indeed sent down by God himself. When I was growing up, there was a lot of hoo-ha about Quran talking about two bodies of water not mixing (25:53, 55:19-20, 27:61, 35:12) and that Jacques Cousteau converted to Islam upon hearing this phenomenon (of waters with different salinity) appears in the Quran.

In fact, two bodies of water with different salinity levels do mix, but do so slowly. There is no "barrier" between them as claimed in the Quran, although it seems as there is to the casual observer.

Oh and Jacques Cousteau never converted to Islam.

CoteDAzur
The fact you are posting on here proves you care about other people's opinions.
Personally, I only care about religious opinions when it is forced upon me, abused women or innocent children, and unfortunately in today's society it is, constantly.

I think most people do.
If my example wasnt perfect I apologise, I accept I am not an expert on the Quran.

I think its fair to say we agree the Quran has no scientific insight in it whatsoever.

Of course we agree that Quran doesn't have any scientific insight beyond what was known at the time it was written. Were you ever in doubt about that?

And oh, if only posting on here meant MNers cared about others' opinions More seriously, I was referring to Googling others' interpretations rather than reading the actual text for oneself. Nevermind.

A slow process. Nothing dramatic. Still ongoing. Finding new ways to feel belonging and purpose.

CoteDAzur - no, of course not. As I said, I'm atheist. But I'd rather be aligned with a religion that doesn't offer rewards for being a decent person, as if it's too difficult a thing to mange without celestial incentives.

SeraOfeliaFalfurrias,

Obviously 'nice' religions are better than nasty ones. But it would be better not to be aligned to any religion at all. The problem is that 'nice' religions legitimise the horrible ones, the only difference being how they interpret the bible. The solution is a gradual awakening of society's rational consciousness to the irrational beliefs that religions indoctrinate into children and gets carried forward into adulthood.

"The solution is a gradual awakening of society's rational consciousness to the irrational beliefs that religions indoctrinate into children and gets carried forward into adulthood"

I agree. Iceland seems to be leading the way with 0.0% of citizens under 25 years believing that God created the world.

That gives us hope for the future of Europe.

Lots of really interesting responses here