Does Christian privilege exist in the UK? If so why and what impact does it have?

[SilverBirchWithout]

This idea came up during a discussion in Site Stuff earlier today, where it was suggested it might be more helpful to start a specific thread.

There is strong evidence that Christian privilege exists. Christian views and values pervade our law making, education system, and bank holidays without a doubt. But what about the way society and our upbringing teaches us to recognise and respect people with a faith, at what point is deference to someone's belief damaging to the rights of someone who doesn't share those views?

I personally identify as generally an atheist with strong personal values, a spiritual nature (but not involving any deities or woo) and a mixture of non-conformist influences from my childhood.

I'm genuinely interested in the whole idea of Christian privilege and welcome anyone's views.

"Moderate Secularists - who wish to effect changes but do not want to damage people with a faith's individual rights"

Not sure what you mean here- I consider myself a moderate secularist, but I think people with and without faith should be treated exactly the same in public life.

I didn't think any of the major Christian faiths insisted on fish on Fridays any more. The pope said it was OK to eat meat in the 1960s, I thought. And it was always more a Catholic thing than anyone else, wasn't it?

More extreme Secularists - who struggle with acknowledging the opinions of people with a faith

Or how about 'just plain old secularists who struggle to see why people should be able to discriminate because of a faith'.

Of course I acknowledge people's opinions, if I didn't I would be wholly unable to debate. It's because I am acknowledging it I am saying I don't like it.

I have no problem at all with all the good and socially inclusive tenants of a religion but I am not happy about the ones that allow them to treat people differently according to what they believe based on a persons sexuality or gender etc within society such as was the case with the B&B.

Actually, I don't think you can have degrees of Secularism. You either want no religious input in public life or you don't. You can't, to coin a phrase, be "a little bit secular"

I have no issue with people of any faith practicing their chosen faith in the UK, as long as it has nonbegatuve impact on me as an atheist. The problem with Christianity in this country, as opposed to sat Judaism or Islam, is that the above statement can never be true what state funded faith schools exist. I believe they are discriminatory to me and my children and hence constitute Christian priveledge as they can access it as tax payers whilst I cannot.

Your definition works for me Bernard.

But I probably would feel that a Sikh should be permitted to not wear a helmet, whilst a small group of people, who decide it's a bit of a giggle to put colanders on the head rather than a helmet, should not.

So maybe I consider the idea of 'exactly' the same potentially problematic.

"Moderate Secularists - who wish to effect changes but do not want to damage people with a faith's individual rights"

And that's not the definition of a secularist. A secularist very much wants to change laws that allow a person of faith to treat people differently.

Secularism seeks to protect us all. Imagine the B&B owner won and was allowed to not give them a double bed. Then other owners can bring any religious leaning into their business. My religion says people with ginger hair have to sit in a special area, my religion says women shouldn't eat in public so my restaurant won't serve woman.

That's the problem with beliefs that's have no basis in reality or logic. That's why secularism works because it protects us from the groundless beliefs of other people from affecting us.

If a Christian wants Christian business owners to be able to not provide their service in part or full because of their beliefs then would you be as okay if business run by other believers turned you away for something they found unacceptable about you?

of people, who decide it's a bit of a giggle to put colanders on the head rather than a helmet, should not.

But that's their religion!

So there cannot be degrees of secularism then. I concede that you cannot be a little bit secular.

I suppose this is the same as being a Christian or not being a Christian.

And Bertrand, as a Christian I fit into your definition too - I want no religious input in public life. That doesn't lessen or negate my own, personal, individual faith.

Yep- I know loads of Christian Secularists.

That's it then we just need to ignore the few other arses and start taking action in RL.

The problem, Spiders, is that "religious input" is a very broad term. for example, Xmas day and Good Friday are holidays. Is that a problem? Should Jewish people be allowed to leave work early on Friday afternoons? In France, they would not be allowed to, one of the reasons for the exodus of many French Jews to the UK.

And what about the eruvim in London allowing orthodox Jews to carry? Are these public or private matters. The secularist eruv opponents predicted all sorts of terrible consequences, none of which came to pass.

Actually I do think Good Friday and Easter Monday are a problem. As holidays that move each year, a four day break (often switching between financial years/leave years at work) cause many problems for retailers, businesses, schools and other people.

Nan, I do not believe the Pope is a Christian and I do not believe there is such a thing as a 'moderate' Christian. Either you believe every word of the scriptures are God-breathed and that Jesus is God and he died and was resurrected, or you don't. If you don't, you have no right claiming to live Christ. His teachings are explicit and much is demanded of the Christian - to 'take up your cross' (die to your sin and be raised again in Christ), to spread the Gospel (why on Earth would you shudder at the word 'evangelise', Spiders, when your Christ - whom you supposedly worship - died for your sins?) I am completely boggled by some people's insistence that they are Christians. I know atheists who respect scripture more than these people. Liberal Christian is an oxymoron; you're just a liberal.

Bertrand, Christ said 'you will be persecuted because of me'. What part of Spider's description of her 'faith' do you suppose would invite persecution?

...and who decreed fish to be eaten on Fridays?

Looks like we have a real live GF like Capsium was referring to on the thread in SiteStuff.

What's goady about my pointing out scripture?

Armour of God, 39 :)

And it was all going so well

There are many people who believe that the Pope is either the antichrist or at least a forerunner of the antichrist. They are usually evangelicals, who believe in God breathed scripture, evangelizing..............