Does Christian privilege exist in the UK? If so why and what impact does it have?

[SilverBirchWithout]

This idea came up during a discussion in Site Stuff earlier today, where it was suggested it might be more helpful to start a specific thread.

There is strong evidence that Christian privilege exists. Christian views and values pervade our law making, education system, and bank holidays without a doubt. But what about the way society and our upbringing teaches us to recognise and respect people with a faith, at what point is deference to someone's belief damaging to the rights of someone who doesn't share those views?

I personally identify as generally an atheist with strong personal values, a spiritual nature (but not involving any deities or woo) and a mixture of non-conformist influences from my childhood.

I'm genuinely interested in the whole idea of Christian privilege and welcome anyone's views.

Fallacy of the beard.

Surely any nation that has had a dominant religion for 1500-2000 years will result in that religion being the 'privileged' one.
Be it Islam, Hinduism or Christianity.

I think we are lucky to have developed under christianty , our legal system, one of the best in the world is based on Christian tenets. There are other examples.

I'm not a religious person but it really does seem that Christianty is an 'easy target'.

There needs to be a complete separation of church and state - no church schools, no automatic rights for bishops to be in the house of lords etc. That way we can have real freedom of religion.

Not sure how the fallacy of the beard applies, to be honest. Helpfupchap- what do you mean by "easy target"?

I was under the impression the B&B wasn't targeted, but even so I do think there is a difference. They don't know what will happen in their rooms and it is not their responsibility or place, even if they think it wrong, to try and police it. You can't expect to be able to function in the hospitality business with that sort of setup.

But, being forced to write something which you fundamentally disagree with is different. That makes you an active participant in it. And I would say the same if a cake shop refused to write say a political slogan on their cake.

the law did not respect their values

Good job. Their values are despicable. It's disgusting to make a gay couple feel like there's something unacceptable or wrong about the fact that they are the same sex. They're not hurting anyone, they're not asking anyone to be gay. They just want to go about their lives like a straight couple would, without having to check ahead that the hotel won't discriminate.

But there are plenty of Christians mocked for their faith or compelled to act contrary to their faith, or even lose their jobs.

I know of a person was disciplined at work because of racism. Was he persecuted? The point is people who hold unacceptable and discriminatory views will, at times, end up with the attention on them, and too right! Being held to account for views that discriminate against humans for doing things that don't harm others is marvellous. And it's how we learn. I've been pulled up on outdated thinking as an adolescent and it was how I learnt why my opinion was in error by people, patient people, talking me through it.

Their human rights and quality of life were not diminished.

So if I open a cafe but refuse to serve Muslims it's okay, because they can go elsewhere.

Or if I open a cafe that won't serve Christians because my god gets really upset by people who don't believe in my God, that's okay?

This persecution mentality is so dreadful because it makes people feel righteous for discriminating.

We were warned in the Bible of this happening.

You were also told that the 'path is narrow' but Christianity is the biggest religion in the world. Other religions have even narrower paths and make Christianity's path look like an 8 lane motorway.

Would it be OK for a B&B owner who is a Catholic to not permit non-Catholics to say there?

Would it be OK for someone with racist beliefs to not permit a mixed race couple to stay?

Is it OK to refuse access to someone with a guide dog in a place where dogs are not usually permitted?

People are of course able to hold all sorts of values and beliefs privately, but they are not permitted to discriminate on grounds of race, religion, disability or sexual orientation within their business. We have laws in this country to protect the rights of everyone.

Saying that homophobia is sometimes acceptable because of specific Christian beliefs about sexual relationships is indeed a great example of Christian privilege speaking.

Why should one religion be made to apologise for its views any more than another. It seems to me that double standards are being applied with Christians being accused of all sorts of "phobias", Whereas other religions are given protection. I believe in free speech - but accept there are restrictions, yet these should apply to all

Twelly can you given an example of when another religion has been afforded a right that was denied to Christianity?

"Whereas other religions are given protection."
What do you mean?

It seems to me that double standards are being applied with Christians being accused of all sorts of "phobias

Can you give me a similar example of a business' discriminatory practice being upheld because the proprietors were a different religion?

Why should one religion be made to apologise for its views any more than another.

I call straw man! You can hold what views you want, I'd rather no one had a problem with LBGT and I'm confident it's getting better, but we're talking about discriminatory practice that affects a persons ability to access goods and services because of their sexuality. Would it be okay for a newsagent to refuse to serve black people because their religion forbade them?

The OED definition of Homophobia is "Dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people"

So it is a term quite appropriate in the example discussed, don't get confused by the phobia part of the word.

It appears that anyone can say anything about Christianity publicly and no action is taken, when comments are made against other religions then action is taken as it is inciting hatred, personally I believe either the law is applied to both or none, I have no view either way just as long as the treatment is the same. People are entitled to their views/faith/opinions, not all Christians hold the same views and if they happen to not fit in with others they are entitled to them - there is freedom of thought in the country. Yes people can challenge each other's views again it is not all one way. The term "phobia" is applied to a number of areas, just disagreeing with someone or not embracing something does not make someone "phobic" in fact the use "phobic" has become quite a bullying tactic.

"It appears that anyone can say anything about Christianity publicly and no action is taken, when comments are made against other religions then action is taken as it is inciting hatred"
Some example, please? I often hear this said but have no experience of it. You have, I presume seen the repeated deeply offensive comments about Islam which don't even violate FaceBook guidelines? I gave an example further down the thread.

I have avoided using specifics as I think the principles are important. Many people are now frightened of giving there views in "reality" - free speech is threatened which makes for a worrying society.

Crikey, I was posting last night on this thread about examples of privilege and I totally forgot the Bishops' block in the House of Lords. That's how ingrained it is - someone actively sitting on her couch trying to think of evidence of privilege misses it because it is so 'in with the bricks'.

There's some pretty offensive things said on the thread linked below about Islam:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/2562580-Can-someone-explain-the-differences-between-Judaism-Christianity-and-Islam

Everyday I encounter negative and offensive comments online, in newspapers and in everyday conversations about Muslims, their values and beliefs. However many times you say it, it is fundamentally untrue that Christians face more open critisim than Muslims.

I have avoided using specifics as I think the principles are important.

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?

I think the principles of treating all faiths equally are important as is free speech. I believe that Christianity is being marginalised. I think citing specifics are not always helpful as each example is almost anecdotal.

Many people are now frightened of giving there views in "reality" - free speech is threatened which makes for a worrying society. *
*
It's when their views are unfair, and that's they nub, that their views will be met with criticism.

If your views aren't unfair it's a piece of piss to defend them. It gets tricky when they're based on stuff you can't show to be a logical thought process.