AIBU to think we need more ^inclusive^ education?

[LoveFoolMe]

AIBU to think we need more inclusive education? If children in a multicultural society such as the UK are educated together surely this promotes more tolerance and better mutual understanding.

So these proposals worry me:

Call to end limit on religious free schools

Considering how divisive and rigid religious attitudes can be, I think it's time to bring children from faith schools into mainstream schools and to encourage these children to mix with more diverse cultures.

Secular schools can still provide fact-based religious education in the classroom and would probably teach their students about a greater range of religions than a faith school would. Parents could, of course, provide a more personal approach to religion for their children outside of school hours if they wanted to.

Let's not further segregate our children by religion.

AIBU to think that reducing (rather than increasing) the number of faith schools in the UK would be far better for our children and far better for our society?

Not everything needs a reason.

If you're telling your children to base their lives around it then don't you think it's important?

People have a right to believe what ever they want, but not to have those beliefs respected.

There's a difference between respect for a person and respect for their beliefs. I don't think any ideas should be beyond scrutiny.

^This thread reminds me of the words of the MP in "Rev" who starts attending church to get his kid into the attached primary school:
"On your knees...avoid the fees."^

Round here they call it 'pay or pray'.

Alan, ignore my request for more info about the prison stats, I've now seen your link.

given that the purpose of faith is to promote 'moral' behaviour

What sort of behaviour would you call 'moral' rogue?

My point about reason is that some things stem not from reason but from a feeling. Eg - there's no logic to falling in love. Nobody bases their life entirely round reason. Many people's lives are hugely shaped and influenced by their relationships. Why do you love me mummy? Could you explain your reasons and justify it please?

Our behaviour stems from beliefs and feelings, ie motivation. Religions work at 'training' us to be motivated to behave morally. 'Skilfully' as the Buddhists say.

I don't think religious people generally spend a lot of time justifying their belief - that's why it's called a belief and faith. It's their daily practice/lifestyle that impacts themselves and others.

But beliefs do affect actions. For example, how you respond to a horrific crime; if you believe in life after death you might pray for the souls of the victims (and maybe even the criminals too). If you think we only live once, you might use that prayer time to actively campaign to prevent similar crimes from re-occuring.

My point about reason is that some things stem not from reason but from a feeling.

Yes, true, I understand that.

Religions work at 'training' us to be motivated to behave morally.

I'd dispute that - I'd say that religions work at training us to behave according to the rules of that religion.

Whether those rules are moral is an interesting issue, particularly after the earlier discussion in this thread about the tendency of religion to follow prevailing morality, rather than lead it.

x-posted

Moral behaviour is behaviour that arises from the intention to live in harmony with other human beings, remembering that everyone is equally deserving of happiness. Generous whether with one's time, compassion, money, skills.....

Moral acts are mindful that we are all flawed and that the person who hurts you has done so because of a flaw/insecurity/previous hurt.

Moral behaviour is gentle and peaceful. Kind, pleased to share and celebrate other people's successes and willing to be with someone in their suffering.

Moral behaviour is not judgmental. Not quick to anger or be offended. Patient. Self-aware.

Great question.

Generous whether with one's time, compassion, money, skills....

School places?

Moral behaviour is behaviour that arises from the intention to live in harmony with other human beings, remembering that everyone is equally deserving of happiness. Generous whether with one's time, compassion, money, skills..... Moral acts are mindful that we are all flawed and that the person who hurts you has done so because of a flaw/insecurity/previous hurt. Moral behaviour is gentle and peaceful. Kind, pleased to share and celebrate other people's successes and willing to be with someone in their suffering. Moral behaviour is not judgmental. Not quick to anger or be offended. Patient. Self-aware.

I like the list and wouldn't dispute any of it. Is anything there exclusive to those with religious beliefs?

All religions know there are other religions. It's not a problem for them.

Westboro?

A better link

There are plenty of fundamentalists who claim that they are right to the exclusion of all others.

Each subject is approached from a Biblical perspective

Admittedly this is an independent school but my point stands about fundamentalist attitudes.

Why do you love me mummy? Could you explain your reasons and justify it please?

the best explanation is evolutionary. Other animals that only have a small number of children display this too.

altruism over egoism, looking out for the weaker.... that's what people who might not really believe or be bothered about belief are hoping to gain by attaching to that social group.

But is that limited to faith schools moonstruck?

How can we cultivate attitudes that lead to tolerance and harmony?.... Knowledge of moral codes won't achieve this

No, I'm not suggesting theory alone. Moral codes need to be put into practice in school. Repetition and reward for attitudes and behaviour that we want to encourage.

I think I 'get' the enormous benefit of feeling loved by a 'God'

That's a good point. Ideally children would feel loved by their family/carers/teachers but I realise that's not always the case.

it's rare to take everything in religious books literally

Rare but there. the very Word of God, infallible and authoritative in the highest degree.... containing the.... most perfect moral code ever devised

religions (as far as I can see) train people to be in the habit of having attitudes and reactions which promote harmonious living.

Let's do that in mainstream schools please!

an example of how someone with no faith would find it harder to make a moral judgement

I'd love to hear one. Anyone?

Christianity is about recognising that we get it wrong

Isn't that just being a decent, self-aware human?

Have you ever looked into Buddhism Love? You might like it. Non-theistic. The Buddha wasn't interested in theories of creation and wouldn't speculate on the nature of life, if any, after death.

Religion aims to make us more than just decent and self-aware. It aims to generate within us compassion and generosity as a default-setting, to have a sense of peace, acceptance of the things we can't change, faith that things will work out okay if your intentions are 'good,' mindfulness of our mortality and no fear of it, a deep understanding that striving for gratification will not make us happy, a love of life.