The mark of a true Christian?

[MrsGinnyPotter]

The sermon was saying that as a Christian, there should be nothing on this earth that you would take now in exchange for an eternal life in heaven with God.
Now in theory this is fine but when you start putting it into real life situations - it's really hard to think 'I would choose God over this' e.g. If it was between something extreme like God or your child's life - how can you make that decision and live with it?

With smaller things it's fine -examples they gave in church were things like 'never chocolate again or winning a million pounds' which would all be easy to say no and choose God but something life altering it would be much harder.
Does it make you a bad person or not a true Christian for thinking like this?

Morality = Christianity again? Maybe op does imply that

Yes it is long. Quick Google and one of the first to come up. I thought it could open up the debate.

Not sure about corkscrew though - he is presenting factual information around the event and, no, doesn't give any answers - doesn't intend to I don't think. Are there answers to this - in not sure there are. I personally understood why the amalekites didn't abandon their identity when they had the opportunity. But it has to be taken in context re ancient ME culture - I'm not sure the west understands contemporary ME culture let alone ancient.

Morality = Christianity again? Maybe op does imply that

That would make sense if there were no writings attached to Christianity. You have a dilemma where a book you think God wanted you to have depicts events that make you feel sick , events you are forced to justify. You don't need to justify the bits that are nice and you take them at face value while you work hard to fabricate a scenario that makes the unpleasant bits slightly less horrendous, a process that you use your current 21st century morals to create.

If I am to believe in a god that seeks my interaction it's going to have to be superior to me. How could it reproach me for asserting that it appeared that it's morals tracked that of humanity, and was therefore a human construct. A god that dealt with me less favourably than another due to my reasoning, which theists assert it gave me, is short sighted and cruel.

But it has to be taken in context

The Israelites didn't need to use context.

Why would an all loving and wise God want me to justify actions that require me to suspend the morals I have here and now? God expects me to use my morals to love those around me now but also requires me to disable that aspect of my reasoning in order to tolerate god's behaviour in the past?

Does God change? How would you feel if he asked you to wipe out a specific nation tomorrow? How could you say no when you have already morally justified when and why he did it before?

Not really my business weighing in on a "what makes a true Christian" thread. But this might be interesting to read: velveteenrabbi.blogs.com/blog/2010/09/the-akedah-cycle-a-sermon-in-poetry-for-the-second-day-of-rosh-hashanah.html

It's a collection of Jewish interpretations of the Akedah (the binding of Isaac - or Ishmael if you're Muslim).

TheGoldenApplesOfTheSun Are you suggesting the mark of a true christian/jew/muslim is being willing to murder your own child, if a voice in your head tells you to?

Satan loves nothing more than making Christians argue amongst themselves about what makes someone a Christian IMO.

Really newchristian?

So god would prefer christians not to question?

lol satan really?

Ah a typo- that explains it. THat ol' santa with his mischevious ways. He'll be trying to make us think that christmas isn't really a christian festival next.
Naughty old santa.

Satan loves nothing more than making Christians argue amongst themselves

Satan loves nothing more than making Christians argue amongst themselves

Whereas going by the OT record god loves nothing more than killing people.

It's a sad state of affairs to proffer someone with an intellect and then expect them to disable it in order to please them :(

Bolognese - what?? Of course not. I take it you didn't actually read any of the poems at the link.

TheGoldenapplesoftheSun thank you for that link. Those poems are fab - a midrash in verse. I can tell I will return to them.

TheGoldenApplesOfTheSun I did read the poems, The Akedah. Its about god telling abraham to kill his son isaac. So if your not saying, "the mark of a true christian/jew/muslim is being willing to murder your own child, if a voice in your head tells you to?" What are you saying?

Aw op it's scary to think about but remember that many women choose to have 2,3,4,5,6 etc children so there's proof it won't be as bad as you imagine. As a mum to 4 my easiest births were the ones where I was upright as much as I could be until I absolutely had to lay down, which was a few minutes at the end.

Think it's safe to say that's a fairly humorous 'wrong thread'

To me, an atheist who would love to believe in God and have a faith - but I just can't believe in it no matter how I try!.

To me, a true Christian lives by fundamental principles of the message of 'God'. Love, forgiveness, acceptance, tolerance.

If you claim to be a follower of Christ but want to exclude people because of who they are or what they believe or don't believe. If you feel superior to other people because of your belief system or want to impose your beliefs on them based on religious doctrine written thousands of years ago then I don't think you're a true Christian.

The religious people that have inspired me through my life have been people who are accepting and loving. People who give of themselves not because they think they should or are told they should but because they feel in their core that it's right to do so.

People who I spend time with and feel a sense of peace and 'something bigger than both of us'.

That's a Christian to me. And I've known many who claim to be but their beliefs and actions suggest otherwise.

You're welcome, niminypiminy - I really like all the Velveteen Rabbi's Torah poems, thoroughly recommend her.

Bolognese, I don't really know where to start. Midrash is a Jewish tradition, basically like licenced Bible fanfiction, of interpretation and reinterpretation of texts. There's an old story about the Torah being written in letters of black fire on white fire - and the gaps are considered just as important. They get filled with our interpretation down the ages. The "obvious" moral of the Akedah is one the tradition has never really gotten along comfortably with. So we pick out strands like the fact Gd doesn't speak to Abraham again, the stories of what happens to Sarah, left behind - does she die of sorrow? Isaac is often depicted as a full-grown man, not a young boy - maybe he tries to prove something, or is sent to Eden for 3 years to learn before he comes back. Is Abraham playing for them? Does he really hear Gd? Is it a test of a different kind - argument is valued in Jewish tradition and Abraham argues for the people of Sodom - but not his own son? The angel saying that he's done what was required does seem to be a later addition to the biblical text - meaning the original story had a very different tone... But you don't really want to discuss this, I think.