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Original poster

The mark of a true Christian?

147 replies

MrsGinnyPotter · 29/10/2015 11:22

The sermon was saying that as a Christian, there should be nothing on this earth that you would take now in exchange for an eternal life in heaven with God.
Now in theory this is fine but when you start putting it into real life situations - it's really hard to think 'I would choose God over this' e.g. If it was between something extreme like God or your child's life - how can you make that decision and live with it?

With smaller things it's fine -examples they gave in church were things like 'never chocolate again or winning a million pounds' which would all be easy to say no and choose God but something life altering it would be much harder.
Does it make you a bad person or not a true Christian for thinking like this?

OP posts:

Bolognese · 11/02/2016 10:08

A Christian believes that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Saviour and that he died and rose again for us to save us from our sins.

Does that mean if you don't believe your a sinner then your not a christian. I don't think I am a sinner and I know my DC isn't.

springydaffs · 11/02/2016 13:30

People who have surplus could look out for those who lack, yes. Especially if those without suffer terribly bcs of the lack.

'Sin' is so misunderstood. It's generally seen as 'bad'. I'd say sin is going your own way, relying on yourself as your 'god' rather than alligning with pure unconditional love, which is God, and making him/her your God. Your choice of course. I'd rather get behind God if I'm honest - though my nature is to get behind myself. That would technically be called my 'sin nature' but I'm totally forgiven for it, no judgement all. From God that is. He wants the very best for me/us is all. Just as I want the very best for my kids and I'm sad if they do something that i know from experience is going to harm them. No judgement though, no 'I told you so's should/when it goes tits up. Their choice.

springydaffs · 11/02/2016 13:32

No judgement at all.

Bolognese · 11/02/2016 14:45

It was my understanding that humans are born with sin, as a punishment for adam and eve not doing what they were told? Your also claiming god gives unconditional love, but that is contradicted by the conditions he places on it ie believing in him, worshiping him and doing as he commands, all under threat of eternal punishment if you dont. I wouldn't know how you would even do as he commands because he is a really bad communicator and very few people on earth can even agree on what god is commanding.

Aren't you just redefining sin for personal reasons.

headinhands · 11/02/2016 16:43

People who have surplus could look out for those who lack, yes. Especially if those without suffer terribly bcs of the lack.

Would it be sinful if those who have surplus didn't give it so that people died? What would you think of someone who had the ability to feed people, but didn't, and said 'it's not my job'.

headinhands · 11/02/2016 16:46

Just as I want the very best for my kids and I'm sad if they do something that i know from experience is going to harm them. No judgement though, no 'I told you so's should/when it goes tits up. Their choice.

If you locked your kids in a house with barely any food and one child ate it all and didn't let the other one have any and that child died, would you be in any way responsible?

headinhands · 11/02/2016 16:48

I'd rather get behind God if I'm honest - though my nature is to get behind myself.

Can you think of one example where you 'get behind God' and that I can't because of my lack of faith, and which causes me to be less moral? Just ONE example will do.

springydaffs · 12/02/2016 00:21

Dear dear, i'm feeling a bit ordered about here. Was that your intention head?

It doesn't matter what I think of ppl in general who have but don't give. I'm not in government or leadership of any kind so it's not up to me to make rules or laws. What is my business is that I'm one of the people who has but doesn't give and that is for me to work out.

If my kids were adults in the locked room then no it wouldn't be my responsibility. I would nevertheless feel responsible but there's nothing (much) i can realistically do about my adult child's choices. I doubt I'd keep quiet but I can't force them to do what I want them to do.

Where did the 'causes me to be less moral' come from?

TealLove · 12/02/2016 00:38

God is within us all. We have the power of God inside us and it is love.
I've never understood if God really asked Abraham to do that or if it was something he imagined in his head, within himself to test his faith. Faith that a living God would not ask such a thing.
My interpretation is that he was testing himself.

TealLove · 12/02/2016 00:39

*loving

AlanPacino · 12/02/2016 06:33

If my kids were adults

What if they were adults and you had the means to intervene and didn't 'because they're adults'.would that make you moral.

AlanPacino · 12/02/2016 06:35

Dear dear, i'm feeling a bit ordered about here

They're very short questions. I'm wondering why a few short questions have created such a feeling in you?

AlanPacino · 12/02/2016 06:37

Where did the 'causes me to be less moral' come from?

So there's no superior moral outcome with you getting 'behind God'? What's the point of getting behind God?

AlanPacino · 12/02/2016 06:42

f my kids were adults in the locked room then no it wouldn't be my responsibility.

So you've locked them in a situation together, where you know they may well cause suffering, but it's morally acceptable for you to not intervene? So when one dies the law will not be interested in why you locked them in together and the sole responsibility is with the adult who stole the food? Why, in reality, would the law prosecute you for orchestrating such a situation when you don't feel you would be to blame?

AlanPacino · 12/02/2016 06:43

something he imagined in his head

Why would God be happy for such an erroneous impulse to be attributed to him?

springydaffs · 12/02/2016 14:46

I must admit I'm struggling to get my head around how 'getting behind God' can be perceived as morally superior. Or even a moral issue at all. It's nothing to do with morality.

AlanPacino · 12/02/2016 16:34

So there's no moral benefit to getting behind God? Is there any benefit? If we both have the same problem and you 'get behind God' and I don't even think about God about the issue would there be any difference?

springydaffs · 12/02/2016 21:13

There may be some moral benefit I suppose - still struggling to get my head around this - but it's definitely not the reason for getting behind God. It wasn't for me, anyway. Though I suppose some people do it to be 'good'. Which is a shame and weird .

springydaffs · 12/02/2016 21:27

I suppose the difference is that I know i am utterly utterly loved, down to my bones. So are you actually but it sounds like you choose not to engage with that. Your choice. So if I have a problem I'll do all the usual, as per, but within an all-encompassing knowledge that I am utterly loved. Makes a big difference to me, to the quality of my life.

Actually I completely lie about the all-encompassing knowledge I am utterly loved. I forget this - like an idiot. But I must say it's doing me good to remember it in this moment.

Bolognese · 12/02/2016 22:53

springydaffs, you might very well feel you are "utterly utterly loved, down to my bones". But how does anyone else tell the difference between what you feel and someone who is deluded, someone who is lying, someone who is on drugs, someone who is mentally ill, someone who is brainwashed, someone who is being blackmailed... and all the other reasons why its your statement is not able to be accepted as factual? All these can subjectively do you good but doesn't make it true!

springydaffs · 12/02/2016 23:56

Or that there is a God who utterly utterly loves us down to our bones.

i don't know if it's expected but I am not remotely interested in convincing you. It is of no consequence to me at all that I may be seen as mad to talk about the love of God. Obviously I would love others to know God's love personally but imo God is perfectly capable of speaking for himself.

It really is a case of seek to find. A heart thing, not a head thing. Afaia love isn't logical so to try to pin it down using logic doesn't work.

headinhands · 13/02/2016 05:45

utterly utterly loves us down to our bones.

Is it something that anyone can experience anywhere, wether they're starving or being abused? Or is it something that largely depends on your physiological needs being met first?

headinhands · 13/02/2016 05:52

Though I suppose some people do it to be 'good'.

I didn't mean get behind God to be good, but to feel more confident that you're making the best moral choices. I think the word superior has given the wrong impression. Either way, by your own admission, there's really no point getting behind God, it makes no difference in any way shape or form save giving you a feeling of being loved which people are able to feel outside of 'getting behind God'.

springydaffs · 13/02/2016 15:11

Anyone anywhere yes; not dependent on physiological needs being meet.

You only need to be on MN relationships a short time for it to become clear that human love isn't perfect. I have not been loved, or badly loved, so perhaps I was/am aware of the need for love - which imo is universal, only I may have been more aware of it (blessed are the poor in spirit). That's not to say we don't need human love too, even with all its imperfections. Lucky you if you got/get that head. Or perhaps lucky me bcs the dirth of it had me looking further - I was as surprised as anybody tbf. Surprised by Joy as CS Lewis would have it (now there's an academic who did it logically).

springydaffs · 13/02/2016 15:19

Getting behind God is about relationship. He makes it very clear that's what he wants. Your choice, you won't be forced.

Best moral choices? I just don't see this or even what you can mean - surely morality is all tied up with 'good'.

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