Compulsive Worship or discrimination for my children at school...

[recall]

My three children attend a Primary school, it is not a CofE School, or any other type of faith school. They have an assembly once a week and "Open the Book" come and act out plays taken from the Bible. At the end, ask the children to prey. My daughter who is 8 said recently that "God does exist" "God is all around us" I asked her who had told her this, and she said it was the Christians in Assembly. She said she bowed her head when everyone preyed because she did not want to upset anyone.

I have spoken to the Headmaster regarding this, and he said they have to have 15 minutes of Christian worship a week.

I feel this is so wrong, that Christians are proselytising to children as young as four at school where I as their parent am legally bound to ensure that they attend. They are being taught individual's personal beliefs as if it is fact. I see this as a violation of their human rights - its is compulsory worship, they are too young to decide whether this is desirable. I am told that I am able to excuse them from these assemblies, but this is segregation and discrimination. It is heart breaking that children are being segregated from each other due to religion in school, a place of education. Christians are free to proselytise anywhere else, why must they do it in schools? This is dividing the community unnecessarily.

So this is my choice as far as I can see it....either I allow the compulsive worship, or my children are excused/excluded.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can come to terms with this ?

Mehitabel- you said that the old testament should not be taken literally. Incuding then the 10 commandments I an guessing-.

I haven't read Noah's Ark in it's entirety ever I think, probably a sanitised version in my childhood. I shall endeavour to find a moral message for you though TTWK as I can tell it's bothering you.

Ok, so God tells Noah to build an ark and rescue some animals as he is going to create a huge flood that will punish mankind. Noah does as God says and builds an ark with his family, gets two animals from each species (I assume for breeding purposes) and then the massive flood hits and they survive and everyone else dies and I think they release a dove of peace to find dry land which is where they end up landing and I assume living and reproducing good Christian types who do as God says.

Moral message - do as God says, don't question him and your faith will see you right and you won't drown horribly like the non believers. I think there is also a message about living in Peace, not waring with each other and gambling and whoring about but that might have been another story. Wasn't the moral messages usually don't steal you neighbours ox and shag his wife?

Si it's OK to murder large numbers of people because they don't do what you want?

Are you asking me personally as a non-Christian, are you addressing the Christians or is that a rhetorical question?

Moral message - do as God says, don't question him and your faith will see you right and you won't drown horribly like the non believers

No believers in this case includes children and babies, all the peoples of the world who don't live in the middle east so can't believe because they've never even heard of this particular god, and billions of animals.

Charming!

Honestly, how can anyone want this god in their children's lives, he who would drown his own!

If a babysitter had a track record like god, you wouldn't let them within a hundred miles of your kids.

Does everyone know that the "daily act of worship of a broadly Christian nature" has only been around since 1988 - before then (1944) it was simply an act of worship, with no religion specified.

I completely agree it's outdated. It is definitely possible to withdraw your child and has been ever since the 1944 education act mandated an act of worship. My father was withdrawn by his atheist parents in 1957. The school made him sit in a corridor, until my grandfather went in with a copy of the 1944 education act, highlighting the relevant provision that children must not be made to feel excluded by their withdrawal (or words to that effect).

So if you do withdraw, make sure the school makes adequate alternative provision that doesn't come off like a punishment for not attending assembly.

It's rhetorical seb.

Quite aside from everything else, it's just such a colossal waste of time. 15 minutes every school day for 12 years is 570 hours of your childhood.

TTWK you do realise you are getting animated about a fictional story written a million years ago when there are terrorist organisations in existence at this very moment murdering and raping children by the thousands every day?

Don't you feel faintly ridiculous?

Good thing it's rhetorical - sebsmummy isn't big into answering questions.........

Seb, many of those organisations are using delightful stories similar to those found in the Bible to justify their abhorrent actions, so actually it's really quite relevant.

It's all the same story though seb.

Funnily enough it's a different religion though isn't it. One which you would all be walking on eggshells to avoid insulting. That's what's makes this thread and it's responses particularly relevant.

Both Abrahamic faiths though. With huge similarities.

I despise all religion, I don't care who is insulted by that. You may walk on eggshells, I don't.

Different religion, same stories. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_in_Islam

It shows how stories from thousands of years ago are actually used for nefarious purposes even today - so actually, it's much more relevant than you'd like to admit.

I'm an equal opportunity atheist - I don't like any religion.

I'm not a fan of any religion either, but let's call a spade a spade. Christianity is on the wane, it's an easy religion to hit with a stick currently because nobody is going to shoot you for the criticism. We are a Christian country so still have Christian customs and traditions (I happen to believe this will change in time but currently it is so). Our Christian beliefs are on the whole extremely watered down if not pretty non-existent, so rarely interrupt our consumer lifestyles.

The one thing yet to be phased out (and given time it will be) is 15 minutes Christian worship in some primary schools and some Christian festivals that are now mostly called holidays and involve Santa and the Easter bunny not Jesus in the stable and the Resurrection.

If the Government demanded by law that I drag my family to the local church every Sunday I would be the first to don a sandwich board and raise merry hell. As it is I went to a CofE primary school and really enjoyed all the God shit that went with it. It was fun and when I went to Senior school I was the swot at the front of every RE lesson as I was entranced by the stories and customs, I found it life enriching and excelled at the subject because I found it interesting.

Nowadays I find religion thoroughly depressing. The constant wars and deaths in the name of religion makes me want to throw the towel in on the human race. If anything I am a Spiritualist but I'm not sure I really believe in the mutters that are entrenched in that way of life either. I follow my own moral code, I try not to cause harm to others and hope no harm comes to me. It's not a complicated or original ethos but it works for me.

*nutters

Seb, the act of compulsory Christian worship really isn't a long standing tradition. It dates from 1988.

Many people don't enjoy the god shit and would rather not expose their children to horrible Christian stories.

We reacted to you saying that these religious stories are really harmless, when they are clearly not.

Why in schools ?

We have our school assembly with prayers at the end and it is timetabled just before break time. What would be interesting would be the option of going out to play 5 minutes early for those who had been withdrawn from worship. I bet it wouldn't be long before the majority caught on. At the moment the alternative is just sitting in the library.

punkrockergirl Ive been really busy sorting everything out for the Sports Day at school, I haven't had a chance to answer your question until now.

If my children decided they wanted to be Christians, I would support them 100%. I'm not against them having a faith. However, I would rather they were introduced to the various religions appropriately, in order that I am in a position to guide them, and help them to understand.

The problem that I have, is that my child came home from school and said "God does exist" "God is all around us" and that has been taught to her as though it was a fact - in a school. I don't believe that at the age of eight, six and four, my children are mature enough to be able to differentiate between what is fact, and what are people's personal beliefs. This is not an impartial introduction to Christianity, its a dogmatic one. I don't like it. I think its unnecessary. Has that answered your question ? Are you now able to understand ?

I think the trouble on here is that Christianity is seen as fair game to sling insults at in a way that no other faith does (I don't mean you, necessarily OP, just generally on mn).
It's apparently ok to belittle someone's belief, but the non-believers then tend to get very offended if a Christian 'fights back'. You can dish it out but not take it.

I despise all religion, I don't care who is insulted by that. The trouble is, most Christians couldn't give a shiny shit and wouldn't be in the slightest bit insulted. It's just typical of the arrogant and 'I'm the only one who can possibly be right' type of comment from the non-believers on here.

And whoever it was who commented earlier - if a post contains bad grammar or spelling mistakes, it Iessens it's impact imo. I know it's an unpopular opinion on mn, but like all the religion haters on here, I don't care who is insulted by this.
HTH.

"think the trouble on here is that Christianity is seen as fair game to sling insults at in a way that no other faith does (I don't mean you, necessarily OP, just generally on mn).
It's apparently ok to belittle someone's belief, but the non-believers then tend to get very offended if a Christian 'fights back'. You can dish it out but not take it."

What- do you mean fighting for your right to have collective Christian worship in non faith schools regardless of other people's wishes, beliefs or philosophy?

My vocabulary, grammar and spelling is particularly poor on this thread, I think sometimes when I'm carried away bashing out a post, I tend to hit send before checking it, then I kick myself when people point it out

Ffs, I'm an atheist who's been happy to let my dd do religious things, by age 9 she'd clocked on it was unscientific and declared herself athiest too.
Personally I wouldn't bow my head or do anything else out of respect for some none existent being. But I would bow my head out of respect for those who do believe in it.