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Original poster

Atheists and Accountability

185 replies

whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday · 13/11/2006 14:58

Hi

My MIL is an athetist and I've had atheist friends in the past. They are the most morally corrupt people I've ever met.

People who believe in God or some form of higher being and an ultimate judgement day or reward (even through reincarnation) live by a certain set of rules e.g. 10 commandments. In a way it makes you aware of a higher being or that you will eventually be held accountible for your actions and should (in an ideal world) stop you doing bad things.

People like my MIL sleep around and do whatever they please regardless of who they hurt or how immoral the act is. As long as she's not breaking any laws of the land (and adultery is not one of them) she thinks it's fine to get away with it. Because she doesn't believe in God, she believes that she has in fact "got away with it".

What are your opinions on this? How do atheists enusre they don't do bad things? Whih set of rules/principles do you follow?

OP posts:
Original poster
whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday · 13/11/2006 20:42

how pathetic that your life is so uneventful that you'd actually participate in this kind of debate if you genuinely thought it was drivel.

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WeaselMum · 13/11/2006 20:47

erm - balamory - you said on another thread today that you recently started believing and practising in Islam.

Does Islam have any "rules" about saying things like "I might be a troll but at least I'm not a incestuous paedophilic priest like you. You're wasting serious blow job time!!!" Nice.

missymoosal · 13/11/2006 21:10

It's necessary to challenge s**t when it is posted.
Becomes drivel when the postee has so little of interest to say to back up her views that it is necessary to walk away and yawn.

texasrose · 13/11/2006 22:05

Missymoosal, don't worry about it!

This is just a wind-up merchant with an axe to grind. Don't waste your breath (or time!)

see ya xxxxx

Twiglett · 13/11/2006 22:27

I didn't accuse you of being a troll

I did however infer you were a bit thick

Original poster
whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday · 13/11/2006 23:06

Weasel
the message that miss moose listed has since been deleted by the moderators. What I wrote was in direct response to that. The fact that mine is still there to view shows that what she'd written was worse as it's since disappeared.
Everyone has a right to put across whatever views they wish without getting sworn at by morons. This post was started with good intentions before a few uneducated imbeciles started swearing on it and throwing insults. I simply wrote back to them what they'd written to me.

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PrettyCandles · 13/11/2006 23:12

Haven't you heard of not rising to the bait? Don't you think you've rather cheapened yourself, and what could have been an interesting discussion, by your juvenile responses?

I'm off, too. Rant as much as you like, balamory - you've wrecked your own thread.

Original poster
whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday · 14/11/2006 05:28

If there's any athetists out there who don't suffer from the common tramp syndrome which has been so finely displayed here, please contribute.

If you just feel it necessary to swear, throw insults and generally be offensive, don't bother as you won't get a response from me.

Questions I'd like to ask:

Do you believe in fate?
In a time of need where do you go for guidance?
Do you believe in a set of values/rules/principles e.g. like Buddahism which also has no God?
Would you class atheism as a form of religion in itself?

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ghosty · 14/11/2006 06:03

In the words of the great Ms Wong:

Has this thing kicked off yet?

sandcastles · 14/11/2006 06:26

Sorry, can't agree. Dh is atheist & he is not in any way moraly corrupt. He ensures he doesn't do bad things, by not doing them! He doesn't need a religion to tell him how to live & behave. His parents taught him that while he was growing up.

sandcastles · 14/11/2006 06:40

whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday, why are you attacking those who's views are different to yours???

"Tinker, look up the meaning of the word bollocks, you'll find your name as the definition" How bloody rude!

meowmix · 14/11/2006 06:51

oh balamory... shakes head despairingly .. you had to know this would kick off.

In between starting wars, raping and pillaging, stealing and corrupting and generalised immorality, I ensure I don't do bad things by having a strong sense of right and wrong that has nothing to do with writings from centuries long past.

Which is why as an aetheist I'm able to accept that some people are different to me and have different beliefs and behaviours that are equally valid to them and their lives, whereas if I was a follower of a religion I'd probably have some heavy duty judging to get on with.

meowmix · 14/11/2006 06:53

"If there's any athetists out there who don't suffer from the common tramp syndrome which has been so finely displayed here, please contribute"

just seen this. ARF. Haven't heard the phrase common tramp in many a year. And now its a syndrome too.... do you get posh virgin therapy to heal it I wonder?

Tutter · 14/11/2006 07:38

what a silly thread

balamory, i'm afraid you come across as a fool

but if you are genuinely interested (which i doubt), my answers to your questions are:

Do you believe in fate? no - life's what you make it, imho

In a time of need where do you go for guidance? - to those people whose advice/opinions matter to me

Do you believe in a set of values/rules/principles e.g. like Buddahism which also has no God? - i have no need for them, i have my own values and principles

Would you class atheism as a form of religion in itself? - of course not

flack · 14/11/2006 08:05

Do you believe in fate?

  • Not predestination, if that's what you mean.

Do you believe in a set of values/rules/principles e.g. like Buddahism which also has no God?

  • Certain things are obviously right: kindness, tolerance, responsibility. Other things are obviously wrong in general: stealing, lying, violence. Those are what humanists would call universal human truths.

Would you class atheism as a form of religion in itself?

  • Oxford dictionary defines religion as "belief in a superhuman power". So by definition, atheism not a religion.

Look, if what you're saying is that having rejected faith a lot of atheists are amoral, sure I can agree with you, undeniably true. But having accepted faith, too many "religious" people also act unethically and immorally (too often). That's arguably even more deplorable.

Twiglett · 14/11/2006 08:06

I believe that children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way

Tutter · 14/11/2006 08:13

i believe i can fly
i believe i can touch the sky

Twiglett · 14/11/2006 08:13

ROFL

Trinityrhino · 14/11/2006 08:14

nice one tutter....but where are your capital I's

Original poster
whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday · 14/11/2006 09:07

Flack

Religion does not have such a closed definition:

1a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
1b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

  1. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
  2. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
  3. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

For example, Buddaism does not believe in a "superhuman power" but is still a religion.
Also, things like scientology (don't know much about it but so far as I know, they don't believe in a "God") and other sects are classed as "religions" but do not necessarily believe in the existence of a higher entity.

Scientists follow their own faith-the belief that science will prevail and that through science they will find an answer/cure. That belief according to number 4 of the definition, shows it to be a form of religion simply because they all follow the same set of principles with a passion e.g. the laws of relativity and theory of evolution. In the same way Christian/Muslims/Jews etc have the same belief and follow a similar set of rules i.e. the 10 commandments.

Do athetists have a set of principles which they all abide by other than the fact that they believe that there's no god. Someone wrote that they follow the 10 commandments and that it was just "common sense" to do so, which is a weird contradiction as the 1st commandment states to worship no God but 1, and no 2 is to not worship idols, therefore an athetist can't follow the 10 commandments (maybe only 6 of them).

Where do your set of values come from? If it's from parents/grandparents are they not based on a religion?

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Original poster
whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday · 14/11/2006 09:12

Flack

No I'm not saying that atheists generally are immoral-we all are, whether we follow a faith or not.

What I was trying to put across is that with a religion, there's the fear of retribution and punishment....that's what is supposed to keep people on the straight and narrow. If you don't have that fear and don't have a set of guidelines to adher to, how do you know you've done wrong? Even the laws of the UK were and still are, loosely based on the Christain faith.

Tutter-you may think me a fool and this thread to be silly but, unfortunately, what does that make you for contributing to it. If you want to genuinely respond to my questions, please feel free. I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

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HowTheFillyjonkStoleChristmas · 14/11/2006 09:22

eh?

um

religious people are more moral?

Uh...

Bush? (and pretty much the entire US congress-you have to be religious to be elected really AFAIU)
Blair?
Saddam Hussein?
Gordon Brown?
Ann Widdicome?
Margaret Thatcher?

Shall I continue?

HowTheFillyjonkStoleChristmas · 14/11/2006 09:23

plus

I don't think acting out of fear is very moral, really

making a judgement to act a certain way because it is the right thing to do is

So if you don't kill because God will punish you...not very moral imo

if you don't kill cos its wrong in your opinion...thats far more moral.

Original poster
whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday · 14/11/2006 09:28

NO-ONE SAID RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE MORAL!!!!! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO WRITE THAT!!!!!

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Original poster
whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday · 14/11/2006 09:29

With regards to not killing because it's wrong, where does that principle come from? Sounds like it's from the 10 commandments in which case you follow certain Christian values.

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