Atheists and Accountability

[whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday]

Hi

My MIL is an athetist and I've had atheist friends in the past. They are the most morally corrupt people I've ever met.

People who believe in God or some form of higher being and an ultimate judgement day or reward (even through reincarnation) live by a certain set of rules e.g. 10 commandments. In a way it makes you aware of a higher being or that you will eventually be held accountible for your actions and should (in an ideal world) stop you doing bad things.

People like my MIL sleep around and do whatever they please regardless of who they hurt or how immoral the act is. As long as she's not breaking any laws of the land (and adultery is not one of them) she thinks it's fine to get away with it. Because she doesn't believe in God, she believes that she has in fact "got away with it".

What are your opinions on this? How do atheists enusre they don't do bad things? Whih set of rules/principles do you follow?

You obviously need to go meet a few more scientists as well as athiests.

um

well she's a practicisng catholic

she was a protestant but switched over female priests

Hello

I am highjacking this extremely insane thread to tell you about my name change - mememe, but only because I noticed elastic woman was here.

I have changed mynake from fatthighs to dimpledthighs after much protest at my negative self image.

Anyway, back to the insanity...

God, Dawkins, Darwin, Hitler, Bishops, Budda, Jesus, Atheists - just pick a name and make a contraverisal sentence.

Sorry to those of you involved in a serious debate, I gave up reading this thread a while back.

Not sure whether to venture on here or not as belief is such an emotive and personal thing, but throwing caution to the wind, here goes.

I am an atheist. Like many posters, I would consider that I have an innate set of moral values which cover things like not killing or stealing from people. These values have been taught to me by society all of my life. Moral philosophers have debated at great length where these moral norms come from and one of the conclusions is that they represent the minimum behaviour required by a particular society from its participants in order to function - this seems reasonable to me.

What concerns me about some takes on christianity is that the rules or moral norms applicable (in some interpretaions) are not those derived from the society in which we now live but from a millenia old patriarchal society. This means that some find it possible to find "rules" in christianity which require the subjugation of women and corporal punishment of children. Now that I would call truly immoral.

Not criticising christianity at all, merely pointing out that the "rules" some christians follow are may well be derived from the same source as the rules the rest of us follow and not the Bible.

I think Goosey made a very intelligent and non-confrontational post. I can't put my thoughts together like that but I agree with her and find the nonsensical nature of this thread most bizarre!

I do find it objectionable - or blinkered - that whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday seems to think that

"the things you were taught must have come from a religion e.g. your grandparents were religious.

If not, where did the theories originate from?"

How about the possibility that religious concepts (or "morals") came from the foundations of common sense morality that people were already living by? Yes, children have to be toaught not to hit others - but that that is not becasue of a religious principle - it is becasue they learn/are taught that a) they don't want tob e hit back and b) there are better ways to get what they want. That is how society works - and develops and grows.

I realise for some religious people, that may not be accpetable - as they may beleive The One Truth, or however their particular belief system has derived its moral boundaries - but for someone like me, who doesn't, and has never, beleive(d) in god, then to me such morality is just common sense.

And by the way - my understanding of the "search for the cure to cancer" is that that is a Media myth. My dad is a doctor, and he would get very uspet at mdeia sotries about the "latest cure for cancer". His comments was/is always that there are many, many diferent kinds of cancer and that there is no single magic bullet - and what annoyed him was that many cancers (particualry childhood ones - the field in which he worked, although not directly in oncology) are already being cured.

I understand from reading another thread that balamory has rediscovered ger faith (Islam) and that her white, British husband has also converted (to please her parents).
I think her new found zeal is making her ask these questions - although I agree there is no need for the rudeness, name-calling and some arrogance displayed in some of her posts.

Oh - and I'm not inferring it's because she's a Muslim she's asking these questions etc, her choice of religion is irrelevant.

Agree with you prettybird - I think morality is largely based on what society as a whole finds acceptable and the Christian church has over the years adapted its ideology to reflect this. (I don't mention other religions as know almost nothing about them)

I would be curious to know where the set of rules that the religious have come from if not from a general concept of what is good - as far as I recall the old testament endorses slavery, polygamy and whacking children with sticks. Many major relgions have also at various points considered it part of their moral framework to kill people who do not share their beliefs. It therefore seems to me that religion has a no more absolute concept of morality than the rest of us.

Converting to a religion to "please parents"? Have I read this correctly??

Ready - yes, that was her quote.

The full post was:-

"Everyone makes mistakes and screws up.

I married my hubby (White Brit) and he did a conversion just to please my parents.

At the start of this year I decided to read up more on Islam and find out what it was really about. Although I was born a Muslim I don't think I ever was because I never actually knew much about it apart from the usual cultural mumbo-jumbo.

This year I started practising and believing properly and my husband also converted properly.

The power of Dua'a is hugely underestimated and it's when you realise that you made a mistake and ask for forgiveness that is the key!!!!

If you've made a mistake, do everything possible to realise it and make amends-don't dwell on the past-look to the future and try to make amends"

Sorry but that is just ridiculous. I have only really skimmed this thread, and thought that some of the OPs comments were a bit much... but to question other people's morals when her DH converted to a religion just to please her parents... well I suppose you just have to laugh really.

What is a troll?? I saw it suggested that she might be on??

She's in her cave no doubt
probably ran out of hot air

Hi Dimplethighs, not sure that's much more flattering than fatthighs, but no need to change it again on my account. What I want to say is this: why did God give the 10 commandments to Moses?? I'll tell you. Up Mt Sinai went 3 prophets, a Frenchman, a German and a Jew. God said, hey you guys I have these great commandments and they come on these cute tablets. Want some? Frenchman had a look and saw Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery, so he wasn't interested. German had a look and saw Thou Shalt Not Kill. No fun for him. The Jew stroked his chin and said to God How much are these tablets? They're free, said God.

Right then I'll take two said Moses (for it was he).

Elasticwoman, that's a rather objectionable joke.

sorry but the relevance of a joke rooted in racism is what exactly?

Wow, what an amazingly offensive op.

I wonder what ever happened to the biblical injunction
'judge not, that yee be not judged', and motes and eyes prehaps????

How amazingly simplistic. Religious people good/ athesists bad.

Stupidity on a grand scale

So how do you explain the following then Balamory?

Pomponio Algerio, a free-thinking law student who took 15 minutes to die in a cauldron of boiling oil, tar and turpentine. He was boiled to death by the inquisition in the 16th centuary for daring to question the Catholic church.

Now I would never be so crass as to sugest that all christian keep a secret cauldron of oil in the back garden. Why do you damn all althiasts because you have met a few dodgy ones?

Message withdrawn

Me thinks balamory is to busy with her head on the floor and her arse in the air to honour us with her fragrant presence

only read the op - is it a wind-up? please tell me you don't have such a smug and narrowminded opinion. I'm an atheist and live my life very 'morally' thank you very much

So unbelievable and up-yer-arsee. I believe in God but totally understand the atheist view, have many wonderful, sound and upright atheist friends (actually have no Christian friends, just a slightly odd Catholic family), cannot believe that anyone could think only followers of religion can live by a set of moral codes. Bollocks.

Live by love not fear... and all that

Fair enough, however I have read, on another thread, some one described as 'un Islamic' for judging another person.

From my perspective as a christian - yes, being a christian obviously does prescribe a framework of morality to live by (refined and changed over time, as Gooseyloosey has said).

However I don't see morality as a defining difference between people of faith and atheists. I have known so many atheists/agnostics/never-think-about-its who are fundamentally and forever good people to know that whatever religion gives you, it's not primarily a set of dos and don'ts where without such a list there would be chaos. Does that make sense?

So I guess that what I'm saying is that at the heart of religion (well christianity anyway) is not morality but something else - I'd define it as a recognition of your own personal sinfulness and moral crappiness and your need to be forgiven and given a new start. So christians of all people should be the first to admit their moral shortcomings.

I know that message has been much mangled but it is there at the heart of christianity.