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Philosophy/religion

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Ideas for local evangelism/mission, please

188 replies

Italiangreyhound · 15/05/2015 00:56

Hi, in our area we have a new housing development and our church (C of E) would like to make the new residents aware of our church, of what we offer and to invite them along to join us for events etc.

Does anyone have any ideas for local evangelism/mission, please?

Anyone tried any stuff locally that went down better than other things?

Thanks so much. Grin

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Gralick · 17/05/2015 16:03

Your DD sounds great, Italian.

capsium · 17/05/2015 16:03

Inaudible voice? Yes, interesting power that, doesn't work very well with the words, biscuits, cake, ice cream or chocolate, I find...

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 17/05/2015 17:09

Reasons to go into a church even if you are not a Christian:

beautiful airy architecture and a sense of history

stained glass windows

dust motes playing in shafts of sunlight

singing in unison

people watching

contemplation

sensation of transcendence

food and chat ( in the case of my 98 year old neighbour)

Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 17:21

capsium I was the prayer person, the one who prays, I was a non-French speaker or non-Flemmish speaker, only a smattering of French! So the person I went with did the talking.

And, you could not make it up... one time we met a family who had a really unusual situation. I think he was Vietnamese with a smattering of French and she was Belgian Flemish. They did not seem to share a common language. I spoke to them for a few minutes in my pigeon French and asked how they communicate. They had several kids, the answer was "Le langage de l'amour" (The language of love)!!!

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capsium · 17/05/2015 17:27

Grin lovely, Italian.

Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 17:29

Gralick maybe something deep and meaningfulis lurking and you have just not recognised it yet! we Christians love our deep and meaningful!

Thank you, my dd is great but also a challenge. We do wonder if she is on the autistic or ADD spectrum, but only very mildly. She will be assessed this summer, not sure what I want! The truth, I guess!!

capsium the words 'turn off the TV' must sound like the tinkling of Tinkerbell's bell in my house!

OutwiththeOutCrowd how fascinating to find so many reasons to go into a church even if you are not a Christian! For us...

'beautiful airy architecture and a sense of history' Sadly, no.

'stained glass windows' - not so much, or rather not so many!

'dust motes playing in shafts of sunlight' perhaps!

'singing in unison' we aim to!

'people watching' Not sure anyone does this do they? Other than when they have nothing else to do!

'contemplation' I can see this for churches unlocked and empty but ours is either full and noisy or locked!

'sensation of transcendence' - now you are getting close to searching and seeking......

food and chat ( in the case of my 98 year old neighbour) - YES, this is a very true one.

you could to your list....

sense of obligation
curiosity
invited by friend and do not want to disappoint
special occasion (happy or sad)
call of the Lord!

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specialsubject · 17/05/2015 17:44

to answer the actual question, what can you do?

  • you can be a useful part of the community. E.g the church group are going out litter picking, fence fixing, doing shopping for the elderly etc etc etc.
  • you can have a website and a big sign or two.
  • you can hold fun events with NO mention of your religion, apart from a note that 'the xx church community group invites you to...'.
  • and of course you can make use of retailmas by actually doing events related to what it is supposed to be about; carol services and so on.

people who want to find a church or want to find out more about religion will find you. The vast majority of the UK are not Christian believers and won't be interested, so please do not evangelise.

please no door knocking or leafleting - the former is intimidating and the latter is wasting resources on this precious planet, however you believe it was created.

be helpful members of the community and demonstrate tolerance.

Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 17:53

Thank you for your thought specialsubject.

I seem to think people see evangelise as a very loaded word! I wonder if I had used the word 'promote' or promotion, whether I would have got the same response?

Do people really find the idea of someone from the church knocking on their as intimidating?

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Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 17:54

Doesn't it matter what they say or do? If it was Christmas and they sang a song and offered mince pies would that be OK? Genuine question.

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Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 18:48

Just a reminder this is new people to the area, not existing residents. Does that have any bearing?

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specialsubject · 17/05/2015 20:02

I am NOT happy when I get religious door knockers, the JWs have a lot to answer for. Be aware that many people have had a lot of trouble from religion. (I'm not an ex-JW by the way!)

even carol singers as I assume they want money. and have heard too many who are terrible

worship etc as you want, I defend that right to the hilt. But let people come to you, don't go to them.

TooBusyByHalf · 17/05/2015 20:42

I think there is a difference between telling people who are interested in your church where you are and what you do and telling people who are not interested about your faith. It is the latter that people find offensive I think.

So applying that to leaflets, I find the flyers we often get proclaiming the 'truth' about 'Jesus' and advertising some local 'ministry' quite offensive. They are often bullying in tone. Whereas I would find a flyer with information about a local church and the activities it runs in the community absolutely fine - days, times, events, contact details etc.

Calling at the door is tricky - it's often inconvenient and feels like someone is trying to sell you something. But if it were limited to hello we're here, event whenever, then it's just about ok. The moment it steps over into talking about God like the JWs do it's an intrusion.

Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 21:10

specialsubject thank you. If you live in my village tell me and I will not come to you Wink

TooBusyByHalf thank you. I think you are describing the difference between a welcome leaflet and a tract. We would be giving out welcome leaflets to new people to our area, not tracts. It is good to know.

I have only spoken to JWs once on the doorstep. It didn't bother me at all.

I wonder if it is about previous bad experiences etc? With people at the door? I have had more trouble with people selling things at the door.

Good to know all your views.

Must go for the night as have some work to do.

Best wishes to all.

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OutwiththeOutCrowd · 17/05/2015 21:28

I would find evangelists on my doorstep intimidating but I’ve had distressing experiences with them in the past and that would probably make me react more negatively than others.

In general, if you did decide to go door to door, I think you would find yourself being bracketed alongside Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons i.e. maybe just a bit too keen even if what you are saying is quite innocuous.

For me the strongly held convictions of other people are scary – particularly since I’m more of a tentative suppositions person myself!

As I said up-thread, the Sikh model is good - let those interested seek(!) you out rather than vice versa.

specialsubject · 17/05/2015 21:32

I've told the local JWs not to visit, ask them. Wink

the only door to door we get here is double glazing or JWs, and the double glazing lot don't tend to operate in pairs. None of them ever seem to notice that the house is already double-glazed...

but yes, work as the Sikhs do. Good model.

TooBusyByHalf · 17/05/2015 22:10

We used to live on the road next to the JW church. I think they had a target of doors to be knocked each week so on Saturday mornings we used to get tons of them - all trying to fill their quota before going to church no doubt. They were an absolute menace and I told them so.

They seem to have switched to a different model now. They don't knock on doors here, they stand outside the train and tube stations handing out leaflets etc. Which is fine so long as they don't block the pavement - which they sometimes do.

I do think italian given the bad experience that many people have had with JWs (and to a lesser extent Mormons) that you may get a frosty reception if you go door knocking.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 17/05/2015 22:18

Drifting off-topic -

I collected a stash of watchtower magazines from JWs and overpriced dusters from young offenders because I just can't say no at the door.

spiralbound · 18/05/2015 23:54

Could I tolerate the idea that some people at my church may actually be agnostics? Of course. But in reality I would be surprised that anyone would give up a couple of hours on a Sunday to be with people who believe something they do not believe simply because they feel aligned with and influenced by the ethics of Christianity.

I think it's telling that you say 'to be with people' there because I wonder if one thing you haven't considered is people going to church for other reasons than to be with people? I don't mean they don't want to be with people (although some won't), but rather that they don't have any desire to talk about their beliefs with those people. Don't some people come to church to try to reach God just because they see it as a special (even sacred) place?

I know some go because they support husbands or wives who go and they themselves are not Christians, not in my current church but in previous ones. And some kids may still go but not want to yet are too young yet to be left at home.

There are side-effects to religious people taking their children along to church, and of putting them in faith schools, and not letting them stay at home until they're quite old. One is that those children, if they have no active belief, end up with direct personal experience of taking part in religious services without belief, and may find that they can be comforting or inspiring or otherwise valuable, despite that lack of belief. It is possibly easier for someone like that (like me) to see value in that kind of churchgoing that doesn't depend on belief, than for someone like you to whom belief is so central that you simply wouldn't be there without it.

By the way, when I said 'rituals' I didn't mean incense swinging and so on. I was thinking of all sorts of things, everything from walking through a porch into church to taking communion to putting money in a collection plate to the prayers and responses.

spiralbound Please could I ask, ...what puts people off, what do you mean by evangelism puts people off? Please do explain because it would be good to know what people mean. Would a leaflet through the door put you off? A knock at the door to sat we are local and you are welcome? An invite to a free meal or picnic? An invite to a fair? Either in person or by flyer?

Offputting = anything where I can tell that the ultimate aim of the person doing it is to get me to believe something. Don't you find that puts you off, if it's other things? It taints everything, like discovering that a friend has joined a pyramid selling scheme and started twisting all conversations round to getting you to sign up too.

I'm a bit more comfortable with the idea of churchgoing being quite openly promoted with no belief strings attached, than I am with belief itself being promoted in a half-hidden way through drawing people in under false pretences, even though I'd know that ultimately the vicar would ideally prefer true believers.

"We are your local church and would love to see you at any service (times below) - you do not have to be a believer, and even if you can only come once or twice a year we will still welcome you. We also run the fete, the .. and the ..."

I would be happy to receive that, but it would have to be sincerely meant.

Gralick · 19/05/2015 11:35

those children, if they have no active belief, end up with direct personal experience of taking part in religious services without belief, and may find that they can be comforting or inspiring or otherwise valuable, despite that lack of belief.

Yes. Thanks for this, spiral. I have the impression this puzzles some who are committed to their faith - that acceptance or enjoyment of some religious elements comes in many different shades. There's no hypocrisy in going to church twice a year, or joining church events without worshipping. Most ministers get it, fortunately.

Until some time in the last 50 years, each British community had two focal points - the church and the pub. Now everything's more fragmented, you wouldn't have to look very hard to find people bewailing the fact that there's nothing pulling communities together any more. Just wishing someone else would do something is human nature (!) In places where the church/mosque/temple/pub/residents' association has successfully taken on this role, you get some very inspiring results.

Italiangreyhound · 20/05/2015 02:30

Spiral re ut rather that they don't have any desire to talk about their beliefs with those people. Don't some people come to church to try to reach God just because they see it as a special (even sacred) place?

Maybe but our church is not an especially peaceful, reverent or beautiful place. I would be surprised is anyone found themselves lost in reverence for God aside from any leaning of the actual people. This is more to do with church architecture than to do with the people in question. Grin

You said It is possibly easier for someone like that (like me) to see value in that kind of churchgoing that doesn't depend on belief, than for someone like you to whom belief is so central that you simply wouldn't be there without it. I am not sure where you got that idea from. I attended church for over a year before I made a commitment. That was 32 years ago but still in living memory! Wink Though maybe on some level I did always believe. I was waiting to believe.

Do people really give money to church and take communion when they don't believe it?

I would be happy to receive that, but it would have to be sincerely meant. Good because that is what we are sending round!

Gralick some churches have taken on post offices!

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spiralbound · 20/05/2015 10:11

I think I got that idea from the fact that you said you'd be surprised if an agnostic would want to be at church.

I don't know if people who don't believe actually take communion, I'd be surprised if people do who haven't in the past i.e. who haven't been confirmed. They may go up for a blessing. (Would you know if someone in your church had stopped believing, though?)

What you're sending round sounds good, if you're not putting pressure on people to believe, but leaving that as something that may or may not develop in time.

Italiangreyhound · 20/05/2015 16:31

Normally in the C of E people need to be confirmed or a communicant (communion-taking) member of their own church to take communion.

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TooBusyByHalf · 20/05/2015 16:43

But no-one would know if they weren't either believers or confirmed. I took communion last week in a church I'd never been to before, on a whim, or because God told me it was ok to, or because I wanted it to be ok, even though I'm agnostic at best. As it happens I am confirmed but the priest wouldn't have known that.

Italiangreyhound · 20/05/2015 17:26

Too I guess ultimately it is up to people's own conciousness but that doesn't stop there being official 'rules'.

I don't think I would want to stop anyone or attempt to stop anyone, for example if I was taking a visiting friend to church and they asked about it I would say it is for Christians. If someone said God told them to to take it, who am I argue with that.

The Bible talks about it as a supper for believers, so I am not sure it means anything for people who are not believes. If it meant something to you Too - I wonder what that means!! Wink

But the Bible does say we should examine ourselves before taking it, I think that is questioning our motives. If we are just taking it as a joke, it would be wrong, but if we are truly seeking (as I relive you are Too) then I can't see anything wrong in it.

Just because a priest or vicar does or doesn't know whether anyone is confirmed or not, there is still an official policy, I was saying what the official policy is in the C of E. It may vary in other churches, in some stricter, in some less so.

People who wish to get confirmed are sometimes allowed to take communion, I did for ages before I was confirmed, about a year! I also took it before I was really a believer (because I thought I was!).

In most cases people go to church fairly often in the same place, same old faces, and the vicar does know who is or is not confirmed. But if you are a visitor the vicar will leave it up to you.

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TooBusyByHalf · 20/05/2015 18:00

Yes I agree with all that. In case you're worried I did think long and hard before I went up, and right to the last moment I wasn't sure, and then suddenly I was sure it was ok. And it felt right.
So maybe you have a point. Smile

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