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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Ideas for local evangelism/mission, please

188 replies

Italiangreyhound · 15/05/2015 00:56

Hi, in our area we have a new housing development and our church (C of E) would like to make the new residents aware of our church, of what we offer and to invite them along to join us for events etc.

Does anyone have any ideas for local evangelism/mission, please?

Anyone tried any stuff locally that went down better than other things?

Thanks so much. Grin

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Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 10:04

heaven not heave! And I was not being patronising about Sikhism, I just meant they are nice, good people.

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OutwiththeOutCrowd · 17/05/2015 10:38

Noddy has a monopoly on the truth. Noddy. !!!!

Hmmm, I think Big Ears would have something to say about that! Wink

Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 12:16
Grin
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Gralick · 17/05/2015 12:25

Saving people 'from the clutches of satan' is seeking to save and protect from harm. Not pollution.

I am quite shocked if this is your true feeling, cap. It's only protective within the confines of your own belief system. Muslims feel the same way about their religion - do you expect everyone to be happy, even grateful, for Islam's stated mission to convert the entire world? Because you should, if you respect the above belief equally for everyone. How about Scientology? Infinite torment unless you follow Ron's ramblings. Even different flavours of Christianity think theirs is the only one that can save from the clutches of Satan. You can't all be right. And, since you all believe you are right, you are all breathtakingly arrogant to think you have the only true answer.

Please be clear that, while I'm willing to be sensitive to another person's beliefs, I expect them to be sensitive to mine. I choose to be free of religious beliefs. I don't care if you think I'm going to hell. It would be very offensive of you to try and impose your beliefs on me, even if you do think you're doing me a favour.

Gralick · 17/05/2015 12:27

approach and attitude can be tempered by humility Thanks Yes, always - with or without religion. Hope you had a nice service.

Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 12:45

Gralick I can't really answer for anyone else but for myself I can say as far as i can see I am not sure anyone here at all has said they want to impose their beliefs on anyone.

You said ...since you all believe you are right, you are all breathtakingly arrogant to think you have the only true answer.

I really do not think it is about arrogance. Presumably most people believe what they believe to be true or they would not believe it!

We believe things about superstition, or not being superstitious, about happiness and what make us or others happy, presumably we all think our kids are the cutest/nicest/cleverest or most special (or inset other word if you like), and some of us believe our partners love us (if we have kids and parters).

Some of us hold religious beliefs, some not.

If you want everyone to stop believing what they believe then you are kind of arguing for some sort of thought police! BUT Wink I know you are not arguing for that. What I (presume) you are arguing for is to be treated kindly, left alone if you wish it, have people be honest with you etc etc.

That is not really about what people believe but about how they act. So I presume you care about how people act towards you and others.

And I would agree what we believe feeds into how we act but it does not necessarily control it.

For myself I believe we are all special, important etc so I must act in a loving respectful way towards people. What I hope to achieve here on this thread is to learn more how that would play out. It is not new to me. Thank goodness. But it is ongoing.

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Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 12:49

Gralick thank you, the service was lovely but my kids are being horrible and I am feeling super sensitive about it. As we knelt at the rail for communion they jostled and argued and normally that is fine but today I just wanted some space! My daughter didn't brush her hair properly or clean her teeth so cue more nagging from me! My son nearly knocked my cup of tea over me, and he kept touching my tummy, which I always worry will make people think I am pregnant! Which I am not. And so I just a bit fed up, real life crowds in on my spiritual life, as it does always! Wink

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capsium · 17/05/2015 12:54

Gralick I wouldn't use the same language, as propelusa's quoted phrase, with a non Christian - because the exact meaning is somewhat lost if you don't believe. The point I was making was in response propel's usage of this phrase, that because in Christian belief Satan is associated with harm / bad things happening, saving someone from 'Satan's clutches' just means a person wants to prevent harm coming to people. It does not have to be that controversial really.

capsium · 17/05/2015 13:00

IMO it would be much more controversial if a Christian was only interested in protecting other Christians from harm...this would be completely uncaring.

Gralick · 17/05/2015 13:11

Sorry you're feeling fed up, Italian. Kids will be kids, and I'm sure they're forgiven Wink

Thanks for your reply above - and, yes, it's about acting considerately.

It doesn't matter that you were responding to someone else's words, cap, I simply don't want to be saved because it's my considered opinion that there's no afterlife to save me from. I wouldn't be so rude as to demand you give up your belief that there is, just as I don't try to persuade my vegan friend to eat animal produce. But I had to have stern words with her about criticising my omnivorous choices! I know it means a lot to her, but that's no excuse for disrespect & bad manners. "Live and let live" ... must be in the Bible somewhere!

spiralbound · 17/05/2015 13:20

What do you see as the main prerequisite for going to your church OP - being a believer or 'seeking', or being a member of the community, who may not 'seek' for years if ever and who may never tell you they are seeking, or even that they have come to believe?

Could you tolerate the idea that some people at your church may actually be agnostics, who simply feel aligned with and influenced by the ethics of Christianity, and are inspired or comforted by the rituals of going to church? Or do you want lots of declarations of belief outside of services and to be able to chat socially about how great Jesus is with everyone?

In the past, full churches must have had lots of agnostics there (maybe not always the same people as people's belief may have faded in and out at different times of their life). It's harder to go to church like that now, when it seems as though people are desperate to "talk to you about Jesus" and get you going to alpha courses right from the start.

I wonder if it might even be hard to go to church like that as a believer, if you prefer to keep the details of your belief between yourself and God.

Depending on the answer to my first question, evangelising (rather than the local church just being part of the local community for the sake of it) makes more or less sense. It does put a LOT of people off, but the minority it doesn't put off are likely to be quite like you, so maybe that's what you want.

capsium · 17/05/2015 13:32

Gralick would you let me help you out? If you hurt yourself would I be allowed to practice first aid on you? If you accidentally stepped out in the road when a car was coming, would you be cross if I pulled you back? 'Save' has a wider meaning, I was trying to point out the wider context, than I sense you are interpreting from my post.

Regarding heaven and hell it really is not be up to me to judge and hence save in this way, according to my Christian belief. I can tell you about what I believe and you can agree with me or not. If you don't believe in God / Jesus, what He stands for, how could you (want to) be at one with Him in heaven? Hell I think is the opposite of heaven, I see being at one with God as good and the opposite not but, if you don't, heaven and hell does not have the same meaning, does it? So essentially the choice to be saved, in this way, is your own, according to my belief. That is you don't have to choose to believe.

Gralick · 17/05/2015 13:44

Gralick would you let me help you out? If you hurt yourself would I be allowed to practice first aid on you?

Sure :) I'd do the same for you.

Regarding heaven and hell it really is not up to me to judge and hence save in this way

Phew! Thanks!

I can tell you about what I believe and you can agree with me or not.

Indeed. Just, please, don't tell me about what you believe unless I've asked: I will afford you the same respect.
Cap: "I'm a Christian."
Gralick: "I'm an atheist."
Conversation done & dusted, unless we both want to go further.

Gralick · 17/05/2015 13:49

I think you made a very good point there, spiral, about differences between evangelical congregations and - erm, what's the opposite? Laid-back, perhaps Wink

capsium · 17/05/2015 13:50

Italian I can't think of how many times we have gone out somewhere to discover my DC still has toothpaste round the mouth, jeans on with a broken zip, hair sticking up. Cue tissues and pulling t -shirts down. There again I'm a bit like that too....and also have found myself getting quite upset (in the street) with DH about discovering he had not been using my scissors (they were, from uni times) correctly IMO although we have been together for over 20 years Grin

capsium · 17/05/2015 13:55

I'll try to remember that Gralick Wink You don't think I go round with a clip board and religious questionnaire, tracts, sprinkling holy water everywhere whilst holding a big a crucifix out in front of me, do you?

Gralick · 17/05/2015 14:00

You don't???!

capsium · 17/05/2015 14:06

Sorry to disappoint but no. I'm the slightly scruffy, bespectacled, messy haired woman approaching middle age....seemingly blessed with powers of invisibility sometimes...

Gralick · 17/05/2015 14:35

Yeah, I have that power, too. Comes in handy sometimes.

Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 15:15

Gralick, we had a church picnic and it is amazing how cake and fresh air and cup of tea make you feel better. They are forgiven, they need to forgive me, I am moody old mare! I saw my beautiful dd with her little friend, walking along with wooden sticks, she looks a bit feral child in the woods. And I realised how much I love her! She is 10. And my son was Mr Sociable. Chatting and playing with everyone (he is 4). I can't be mad forever! If I still had periods, I would swear I was on one!

"Live and let live" ... must be in the Bible somewhere! Matthew 7:1-3 (NIV) “Do not judge, or you too will be judged." Or in the old version....
King James Version (KJV).... "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

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Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 15:33

spiralbound you said What do you see as the main prerequisite for going to your church OP - being a believer or 'seeking', or being a member of the community, who may not 'seek' for years if ever and who may never tell you they are seeking, or even that they have come to believe?

There is no prerequisite for going to the church I go to, other than the desire to go there.

Could I tolerate the idea that some people at my church may actually be agnostics? Of course. But in reality I would be surprised that anyone would give up a couple of hours on a Sunday to be with people who believe something they do not believe simply because they feel aligned with and influenced by the ethics of Christianity. I know some go because they support husbands or wives who go and they themselves are not Christians, not in my current church but in previous ones. And some kids may still go but not want to yet are too young yet to be left at home.

I guess most who go have some vested interest in the spiritual side. I have never met anyone drawn by the 'ethics' of the Christian faith alone.

Yes, I can imagine some inspired or comforted by the rituals of going to church. Maybe some who never believed but grew up in the church or some who came searching, never found, but stayed. But in reality mine is what is called a low or evangelical Anglican, which means few candles, no statues and no incense, so ritual is minimal. The vicar waves his arms around a bit sometimes but aside from that, little ritual. Wink

I don't exactly want lots of declarations of belief outside of services or to be able to chat socially about how great Jesus is with everyone? I would like people to find faith in Jesus for themselves, however they find it. The church's aim is to facilitate this, not to force it. As I see it.

Maybe churches have always been places where people want to talk to you about Jesus - he is the main guy! But I think in the past people had reasons to go, social reasons maybe, but now there are few social reasons to go aside from wanting to follow the faith (excepting maybe with some churches and some schools but do not want to get into that).

In any church people are free to keep themselves to themselves, we don't pounce on people and ask them what the Lord has done for them lately but I am sure there are churches like that. I must say I go to a C of E church and at it's most hand-raisingly-happy-clappy the C of E still allows people to take a step back, be quiet, not join in, not shout about it. And if one does end up in a hand-raisingly-happy-clappy C of E (as I was about 5 or 6 years ago) there will always be another C of E nearby that is very different. So one never really gets forced to be a certain way in this country. It may be different overseas or in a very rural setting.

spiralbound Please could I ask, ...what puts people off, what do you mean by evangelism puts people off? Please do explain because it would be good to know what people mean. Would a leaflet through the door put you off? A knock at the door to sat we are local and you are welcome? An invite to a free meal or picnic? An invite to a fair? Either in person or by flyer?

What would put people off as well as on, is a good question.

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Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 15:38

say not sat! - to say we are local and you are welcome?

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Italiangreyhound · 17/05/2015 15:51

Gralick Yes, there is a difference between evangelical congregations and erm.... yes... see the problem... well, liberal, Anglo Catholic.

Yes, families are a pain at times. My son is such a great little chap when he is doing well, all smiles, butter would not melt etc. He is a bit of a people-pleaser, smiler, but my dd, she is a force of nature, her own woman, she doesn't care what others think! But I worry she will be picked on if she has not cleaned her teeth or bushed her hair etc. Luckily at our church there are a littl group of lads all a year or two younger than her or older than her and they all get on really well, so she is kind of one of the boys with the,m' I am only saying that here! I am very PC on gender terms etc. I think she can be any way she wants. I am a feminist, don't-ch-know!

Ha ha capsium I once went door to door in Belgium doing a religious questionnaire, and I bet we had tracts! Honestly. but no sprinkling holy water or holding a big a crucifix!

I don't have invisibility but around my kids my voice has the ability to be inaudible!

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capsium · 17/05/2015 16:00

You're braver than me Italian re. the questionnaire, how did you get on? I bet it was an interesting experience anyway. The closest I came to that was a Social Studies survey about TV watching, when I was a teen - mucho embarrassment. I think there may have been some creative rounding up of data...

Gralick · 17/05/2015 16:01

I have never met anyone drawn by the 'ethics' of the Christian faith alone. - You have now. I attend churches very rarely, more when I'm travelling, and entirely without reference to denomination. Sometimes I like to be around people who are all doing a nice togetherness things and whom I can trust to be safe. I've paid respects to a variety of deities over the years, depending on where I was.

The last time was about six months ago. A friendly woman came and asked me what brought me to church today? She looked slightly forlorn when I told the truth - I had an hour to kill and was just passing! I thanked her, but almost felt guilty that I had no deep & meaningful motive.

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