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Original poster

Where does belief in God come from?

400 replies

TooBusyByHalf · 14/04/2015 18:35

I want to believe in God but I just don't. Can't make it make sense. Am vaguely thinking of returning to the church anyway, without faith, cos I like the singing and smells and all that but I think that would be dishonest.
Atheists, I know, ok? Smile No need to explain why not to believe. Thank you.
Believers, why? Where does your faith come from?

OP posts:
KingOfTheBongo · 19/04/2015 01:13

Hak, if you actually read the Bible (like the New Jerusalem Bible)., you will have an idea.

KingOfTheBongo · 19/04/2015 01:16

No Viv, but I do believe that a year of study might fill in the gaps in your knowledge. Just a suggestion!

Vivacia · 19/04/2015 06:52

I doubt a lifetime is long enough to fill in the gaps in my knowledge!

Vivacia · 19/04/2015 06:53

In the meantime I don't think that my questions reveal a lack of familiarity with the bible. They seek to show flaws in others' arguments.

Vivacia · 19/04/2015 06:54

What makes you think I'm unfamiliar with the bible?

fulltothebrim · 19/04/2015 08:23

I have read the bible- all of it. It's one of the reasons I am an atheist.

Hakluyt · 19/04/2015 08:29

"
Hak, if you actually read the Bible (like the New Jerusalem Bible)., you will have an idea."

I have read the bible. I still don't know which bits, if any, were divinely inspired.

Vivacia · 19/04/2015 08:29

I think that's the point I've struggled to make brim. One hears a lot about the bits that are make sense and talk about compassion and forgiveness, but very little about the cruel and nonsensical bits. It's dishonest.

capsium · 19/04/2015 09:14

full, viv, if you believe God is a human 'construct', do we not also have the power to design our own construct? Why would you seemingly want anyone to have the construct of 'god' you describe?

Why are you so insistent Christians adopt your understanding of a cruel and vengeful 'god'? And why are you so insistent that we read the Bible, according to your own understanding, that is, without any reference to context and ignore anything loving within it?

If you believe 'god' is a construct, why do you seemingly want people to have a destructive one?

If my God is viewed, by some, as my own 'construct' (and I don't believe He is a 'construct') then I am not certainly not going to choose to worship the construct you have attempted to make for me - I can choose my own.

And as for honesty, my interpretation of the Bible is my honest understanding of it. Just because it does not match your own, viv and full, does not make it less honest.

capsium · 19/04/2015 09:23

And full, forgive me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember you making references to a sense of divine element within yourself, in terms of your own spirituality. I am sure you would not like me to make my own construct out of this and declare it true...

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts · 19/04/2015 09:34

As the majority of Christians do not read the Bible literally it is a bit pointless for atheists to insist that we do. Some Christians in the more conservative parts of the Protestant tradition do try and read the Bible literally but the majority of Christians do not.

There are a couple of really good books on how to read the Bible. Both are by Etienne Charpentier. The first is called 'How to Read the Old Testament' and the second is, you guessed it 'How to Read the New Testament.'

Both are usually available for about 1p secondhand on amazon so there is no excuse for not finding out how Christians actually do use the Bible.

Of course we can continue with:

The Bible says this....
But Christians don't read the Bible that way.
The Bible says that...
But Christians don't read the Bible that way.

Which is a bit pointless really.

BigDorrit · 19/04/2015 09:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

capsium · 19/04/2015 10:03

Big but if you believe anything declared divine is a construct, the important thing, to you, surely, as a first priority, is what is being claimed as good and moral.

Have the Christians on here disagreed with any of the things you consider fundamentally good and moral?

If not, why are you suggesting our source is destructive to us? Especially if you believe our source is within ourselves, a human construct, anyway...

capsium · 19/04/2015 10:05

^ other than God, that is..

Vivacia · 19/04/2015 10:07

the important thing, to you, surely, as a first priority, is what is being claimed as good and moral.

Personally, no. I want to know how true it is. A belief in astrology seems benign, but I want to know how true a belief it is before I start investing in it. (If only religious belief was benign).

Vivacia · 19/04/2015 10:09

Why are you so insistent Christians adopt your understanding of a cruel and vengeful 'god'?

I don't Confused. Christians claim to believe the god from the bible, and the bible describes a cruel and vengeful (and jealous) god.

BigDorrit · 19/04/2015 10:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

capsium · 19/04/2015 10:22

Well, Vivacia how can you go about determining that truth, especially when the subject in question concerns the supernatural?

The Christians on here have a different understanding of the Bible and know God differently from what you describe. You may dismiss our methodology as invalid but it is how we practice our Christian Faith. Who should govern what is defined as Christian practice, Christians or atheists?

Vivacia · 19/04/2015 10:28

Well, Vivacia how can you go about determining that truth, especially when the subject in question concerns the supernatural?

Take facts from scriptures?

Who should govern what is defined as Christian practice, Christians or atheists?

I don't think that it requires governing, although Catholics would disagree. I think that religious practice requires discussion.

BigDorrit · 19/04/2015 10:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

capsium · 19/04/2015 10:34

Certainly, we've had one who insists that it's right that all schools teach christianity as fact, and have to have christian worship by law wink

If this refers to myself, then you have me wrong. I just want the provision of Christian worship within schools to remain a legal requirement. No worship by law (as there is opt out). Universal provision, optional take up. Also I believe Christianity should be taught as a faith.

But this subject is one discussed many times before and usually one which many atheists use to justify their uninvited hijacking of any thread asking for advice or information concerning the Christian Faith from those within that faith.

BigDorrit · 19/04/2015 10:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

capsium · 19/04/2015 10:45

Take facts from scriptures?

But you don't believe scripture is fact, do you? I believe there are many layers of truth within scripture. A discerning of that truth is required. Full appreciation and understanding is a lifelong process.

Do you, as an atheist, take a fleeting glance at the world and say 'Sorry, I don't like it, this world is not for me..." because there are things that are difficult to understand in it?

BigDorrit the Christians on here do not dismiss the Bible, at all. You dismiss it, in you rejection of it and Christian belief. Christians are still reading it, rereading it, discussing it, thinking about it, finding out about how, when and where it was written and what others think and have thought about it...

BeaufortBelle · 19/04/2015 10:50

I believed always deep in my heart I think without being a member of a church. When I got married I was overwhelmed by the spirituality of it, its promises and the blessing of the rings. It became very very tangible.
When my DS was born we had him baptised and went to church occasionally and I will admit some of the reason related to schools - I believed but had to evidence that belief (not starting an argument about that please). Meanwhile we had a baby who was born a little early and didn't survive. He was baptised by the hospital chaplain who knew our vicar and the vicar came to see us as soon as we were home and helped us organised and presided at the funeral.

Still we only went occasionally. When dd was born less than a year later (just), our first visitor was the vicar and I shall never forget the love that got me through a very very dark period. After that I have been a full member of my church community and was confirmed when dd was a baby.

For me it was always there but a personal tragedy brought me closer to it and saved me from the darkest places.

capsium · 19/04/2015 10:52

Big apart from provision of Christian worship, on a universal provision, optional take up basis, in schools, is there anything else you disagree with, in terms of what the Christians, on here, claim as good and moral?

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