So stressed taking children to church (long, sorry)

[LightTheLittleLight]

Went to mass tonight with my 3 DC aged 11, 9 and 3. DD (3yo) is pretty good and quieter than most but became a little wriggly at times. Church was cramped and at times she leant against the back of the pew in front. Each time, a woman sat on said pew turned and glared at me and DD, muttering. I removed DD each time, sat her on my lap and (in frantic whispers) asked her to stop wriggling. It got more and more stressful, and the 3rd or 4th time I got such a glare and a hiss to move her that I just picked up DD and marched out of the church.

I went straight outside, sat on the steps and cried I appreciate that the other parishioner clearly found it irritating to have a small child behind her but she could see that I was doing my best to keep her quiet and still (and in truth, there were several other children being louder than DD who was communicating only in whispers to me). But I felt as though we were both horribly unwelcome.

I couldn't leave and go home as other DC were still in church (sat with good friends, perfectly safe), so in the end we stood in the church foyer for the second half of mass, just going in for communion. Came straight home afterwards where I'm now feeling like crap and wondering if I can face taking DD again.

I know that sounds overdramatic but our particular parish church has a general background of not being child friendly and I feel like it's really wearing me down. The priest also does the glaring and tutting behaviour at small children and has been known to stop mass entirely and ask for a child to be removed before he will continue. I should say that he has never directed this at DD and certainly tonight didn't even look in her direction - so I was surprised she was attracting so much hostility from person on next pew. But his attitude (which seems to be reflected in some of the parishioners) means that I am constantly on edge when I have DD with me.

There is no toy/children's corner - in fact no toys are allowed (I used to take in e.g. crayons and non-noisy figurines etc to occupy). Half a column on the weekly parish newsletter is taken up with bullet point commands (in bold and SHOUTY CAPS) instructing people to control their children (e.g. Do not bring toys into church, Do not allow children to move around etc). Some of which are clearly reasonable - but a whole half column!

The confusing thing is that the parish schools' admissions criteria require 18 months' regular church attendance prior to application to get the highest priority, so they are obviously expecting children to attend from 2-3 years of age at the latest; yet there is no provision for them, and worst of all, very little tolerance. I should say there is a children's liturgy that goes on during the sunday mass, but this is only for children of school age up until they start preparing for first holy communion (7/8 years old).

I'm not sure what the answer is. I couldn't concentrate and didn't get anything out of mass tonight except for feeling like complete rubbish afterwards. DD is certainly getting nothing out of sitting through a service she doesn't understand and being glared at as though she shouldn't be there.

Please don't all pile on and tell me I just need to control my child. I fully recognise that all children, including mine, can be irritating, and I don't let them misbehave, honestly. I've been taking children to church for 11 years and if they're not coping or their behaviour has ever been unacceptable of course I would take them outside (and have done in the past) but I've never been upset about it. It's the lack of tolerance that's upsetting I think.

Rant over. Thanks for reading

The answer is find another church!

The answer is find another church!

That's horrid. I'm not religious but do attend services for family reasons on occasion and our local churches have been very welcoming of our children. That attitude really is irritating ("suffer little children"?) Are there any other local churches you could/ would consider attending? Or any services that might be easier to attend with your dc ?

Oh find another church!

We need to welcome our babies, not drive them out.

If you have to go to get them into school, talk to some of the other mothers and write a letter to the bishop. This isn't good enough.

Look at Pope Francis when the wee one ran up onto the altar to see him.

Sounds awful no wonder you cried, try another more welcoming church. Everyone is supposed to be welcomed there no excuse, your child sounds quite well behaved it's not like she was running around screaming. In fact I would be tempted to sit next to families with small children then you can all get communal glared at!

Thank you for replying

There is another church locally that a fairly large portion of our parishioners have already "defected" to over the years since this priest came to our parish. It has a more family friendly reputation and I know they allow pre-schoolers (and younger) into children's liturgy. So it would be much easier, and I think we might just have to move. It just seems such a shame to leave your own parish, particularly when the older DCs (and me!) have friends there.

The school thing is an annoyance but not the be all and end all. It would be harder to establish DD's 18 months of attendance if we switch now because I'll have to get both priests to sign and verify, but it's not impossible and tbh there's a limit to the hoops I'm prepared to jump through for a school. It's more important to me that DCs feel happy and welcomed in church and a valued part of the parish.

Annunziata I completely agree. This particular priest has been the subject of complaints before, not from me, but from others I know. Nothing seems to change

Go to the children's liturgy on Sunday - that's the one that will be full of children and families, where the congregation will welcome children. Ask the catechists (or whoever is taking the children's liturgy) if there is provision for little ones - or whether there could be something like an area with crayons etc. Other Catholic Churches do this. I have friends who do children's liturgy at their church and it sounds like a lovely friendly set up.

I'm not going to pile anything on you... our church is super tolerant of children, and yet the least well attended services are the 'family' ones, which many of my friends admit are too stressful to bother with. I barely appreciate any of the service when I'm with mine - it's like have your nerves permanently twanged. I'm reading books to them most of the time. Last week DS found The Selfish Giant, so I was sobbing as well as missing everything being said.

I sing choral Evensong every so often as it's the only time I get peace! Solution for you... leave 3yo at home if that's an option or as has been said, find another church.

catsrus - this might be the answer at the other church, agreed.

At our particular church DD is too young to join the children's liturgy so still has to sit through the "family" mass (which is about 30 mins longer than the Saturday mass...hence taking her tonight!). It is billed as "family mass" but is absolutely no more tolerant of children. If anything, it is more difficult because there are more children to glare at and hold up mass for

Another vote here for 'find another Church'

but I would also let the hierarchy know why you are leaving.
I'm quite shocked that any Church treats families like that - maybe we're just lucky with our Church.

I didn't read your whole post, too much wine

The one hour of church with my three year old twins is without doubt the most stressful part of my week. It's horrendous.

I'm thinking of starting my own catechism class just to get through it.

Find another school church

Go to the other church. Your priest appears to have forgotten some basic tenets of Christianity.

Your current church is likely to run into problems as people are pushed out and feel unwelcome.

Jemfinch I take my hat off to you, and if you set up that catechism class I'll join you!

ashtray ha, school is honestly not the main concern although I am considering it for DD, but in fact my older DC attend another school anyway. I just think it's bizarre that the admissions criteria require you to take toddlers to mass, but then the church makes it so difficult!

Anyway thank you all for your lovely replies, I'm feeling a little cheered up and it's strengthened my resolve to try another church

It can be annoying for older people when young chidlren don't sit still or are noisy. Don't get upset about it though. No point. Could you not get together with othe parents and come up with some idea for a creche for small children. I can't see the point of making toddlers and babies sit quietly for 45 minutes or longer.

I'm one of the miserable old bints that sides, read, and generally know where the tea, coffee and wine stores are (and have the combi for the safe). I look behind me, smile, stroke a head and say "if it isn't for the babies, where's tomorrow's congregation" - and even "if he's/she's hungry feed - Jesus woudn't have minded".

Please find another a church - one where is God and forgiveness are present.

Don't go. Choose a different school.

Print out the news reports that were printed at the time pope Francis told mothers they were welcome to breastfeed in St Peters. Drop it off at the rectory. Keep a copy in your bag and hand it to the old biddies if they glare. And a copy of the photos of the pope with the little boy who ran onto the altar too.

If you decide to find another parish, then write to your diocese and tell them why. Even if you don't decide to go to another parish, write to the diocese. The treatment of young children and their families in your parish is inexcusable and should be brought up by the Dean in whatever deanery your parish is in when he holds his annual review of his deanery. It might be worth finding out who the Dean is and writing to him as well as to the diocesan office. A dean is often a monsignor but can be just a regular priest.

I feel very lucky that my church has a cry room for the inconsolable. I have sometimes sat there and cried myself with some of the DCs on particularly rough Sundays.

There is a constant buzz of small children's voices in my church, and the odd outbreak of crying. The priest and choir just keep on trucking, so to speak.

The parish I grew up in (in a Dublin suburb) was bursting at the seams with children and often in summer when the doors were left open dogs would wander in and lie on the cool floor near the altar. Maybe that's taking things too far... But your parish sounds truly unwelcoming and the person responsible needs to be held accountable for that.

She sounds very Christian doesn't she. Stupid judgy bitch.

Find another church.

I,m shocked at how unfriendly your parish is. Find another. My dd brings her bike into mass ( much to my embarrassment ) never has our Priest turned a hair.

A parishioner did look at me witheringly and say " she's not bringing that in, is she?" too which I replied with big smile " well I don't suppose Jesus Christ would mind".

It never fails to amaze me that a religion that technically forbids contraception can be so intolerant towards small children. We're lucky in our parish; we have a children's liturgy from babies to communion age, a certain level of noise/activity is tolerated as long as parents are making reasonable efforts to control it, quiet toys, colouring, books etc. are fine, and our priest not so long ago asked elder parishoners to take pity on those of us with young children and lend a hand if they thought it would help!

Definitely move to a different church, I would either say why to the priest directly, or at least write or email. Maybe even copy the bishop. When the parish is dying on its arse in 20 years because the young families have left and gone elsewhere and there is no one coming through to read, or be a Eucharistic minister, they might rethink their approach. It's obviously nice to have a peaceful mass with no children, but people seeking this normally go to an evening service.

My church has very few parishioners between 50 and 60. The previous holy person who was there for 10 years (about 25 years ago now) didn't like children and all the young families went elsewhere. The present rector is lovely though and there are massive numbers of young families now. The period has left its mark though.

Don't take your kids to church.

Religion should be for consenting adults only.

I would question if this is the right school if the associated church doesn't like children!