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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

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Original poster

Don't understand some Christianity basics, it's worrying me!

75 replies

WonderingMinstrels · 06/04/2015 20:39

Hi,

NC for this. I have always had a faith in God, but recently I have been struggling with some of the most basic questions of my faith. Why, if God gave humans free will and therefore cannot intercede in the event of evil, does he answer prayer, as surely that is interceding? I understand that prayer will be answered according to God's will, but if a child is being abused, surely that is against God's will?

And if God cannot intercede, what is the point of having the Holy Spirit to guide us? Isn't that just another level of intercession?

When people talk about a relationship with Jesus, is that via following his teachings in the Bible, or by another way?

Sorry for rambling, and being a bit incoherent. It's been a long day, but this stuff is praying on my mind (no pun intended!) and I would love to hear from believers who may be able to shed light on this for me.

OP posts:

KingOfTheBongo · 07/04/2015 14:39

OP ... a great way to make the gospels come alive, is by watching documentaries on youtube .. there are some great ones available

DioneTheDiabolist · 07/04/2015 15:37

Full are you an atheist or do you believe in a god that is evil?

BigDorrit · 07/04/2015 15:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Geneticsbunny · 07/04/2015 15:48

King. Which bunny were you replying too?

Original poster

WonderingMinstrels · 07/04/2015 15:52

Hi. Thanks for all the replies. caught up in half term with a four year old madness so will have to read through all the replies tonight. I've skim read a few and I think I understand a bit better now.

It's pretty difficult to take seriously the views of those posters who describe believers as nutters, though. The contempt of the posts kinds of overrides any sensible point they may have.

And of course I have wondered if all of it is made up, but I have had enough personal experience of God and seen Him positively affect the lives of others that I do believe He is there.

I'll post more later when I can properly read the replies. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. It really does help.

OP posts:

KingOfTheBongo · 07/04/2015 20:19

Hi bunny, I meant the other bunny ...

KingOfTheBongo · 07/04/2015 20:20

Dione ... You know the New Atheist mantra ... "There is no God and I hate Him"

KingOfTheBongo · 07/04/2015 20:21

Dorrit ... Yes you do if you are using it as an argument against the existence of God.

BigDorrit · 07/04/2015 20:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

WonderingMinstrels · 07/04/2015 20:50

Dorrit - if you are convinced that God doesn't exist, then no one could prove it to you surely? God can't be disproved either, though many may not have had a personal experience of Him to feel his existence.

OP posts:

Original poster

WonderingMinstrels · 07/04/2015 20:52

I wasn't asking if God is real, I was asking about prayer and why certain prayers are or are not answered etc.

OP posts:

BigDorrit · 07/04/2015 21:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts · 07/04/2015 21:20

Well you could read some Alvin Plantinga, Antony Flew and Keith Ward who argue for the existence of God from a philosophical point of view. John Lennox is a mathematician and is pretty good as well.

Original poster

WonderingMinstrels · 07/04/2015 21:32

I do think the bit in my OP about wanting believers to shed light on this for me, has gone somewhat unnoticed by certain posters. Of course, people are free to post wherever they want, but I'm not sure why posters who do not have a faith don't just create their own thread about their uncertainties, as this thread has become about them and not my original question.

OP posts:

BigDorrit · 07/04/2015 21:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts · 07/04/2015 21:44

WonderingMinstrels has a point. If this was a board about dogs and you had people who hated dogs and piled into every discussion and said that owning dogs was wrong and everyone should own cats or rabbits or not have any pets then it would get very boring very quickly.

So to go back to the original OP.

From my experience a relationship with Jesus is something that has come about through prayer. There are many types of prayer and for me the Ignation and contemplative forms were what suited my personality best. For other people it might be through study or through being in nature or through modern worship songs. We are all different so it is a case of finding what suits your personality. I was recommended 'Sacred Pathways' by Gary Thomas which helped me understand some of the ways of praying that I hadn't encountered before.

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts · 07/04/2015 21:47

BigDorrit you have to consider philosophy as that address how we know stuff.

Notatallsleepy · 07/04/2015 21:56

In terms of having a relationship with Jesus, for me it means praying/talking to Jesus. Living my life knowing that he is with me. My relationship is similar to my human relationships ie. Built on spending time with that person and getting to know them (through reading the bible and praying) and also sharing my life with them (through prayer).

Original poster

WonderingMinstrels · 07/04/2015 21:57

Big Dorrit - no I do not want people to tell me to believe without question. I already do believe. Please do not presume what I want.

What irritates some atheists that I know is when people who believe try to impose their religion on others, and try to use conversations about atheism to convert atheists to religion. Well that's what you have been doing on this thread.

I did not ask for atheist views but views Of believers. To hijack the thread and make it about yourself is just rude.

OP posts:

KingOfTheBongo · 07/04/2015 21:59

Dorrit, it's very easy to prove a negative. I can prove there's no wild animal in my bathroom because I just had a pee and I survived.

Original poster

WonderingMinstrels · 07/04/2015 22:02

Thank you so much to all those posters who have spoken so personally of their prayer experiences. It really does help and has clarified my thoughts. It makes me feel as though I am on the right path. I'm really grateful that you took the time to reply. Thanks x

OP posts:

Notatallsleepy · 07/04/2015 22:16

www.prayercourse.org

Have a look at the link for some really good videos on prayer by Pete Grieg who set up 24-7 prayer. We went through them with my cell group recently.

As a comment on your OP (too tired to wade into the main debate on this thread) I would say that God can and does change his mind as a result of our prayer. Genesis 18 -where Abraham talks with God about Sodom and Gomorrah and petitions God on his decision to destroy them would suggest that He is open to altering his decisions based on our interactions with him.

GratefulHead · 08/04/2015 16:55

I didn't get back to this thread but one thing I wanted to say is that it's natural and normal to wonder about the things in your OP. One of my best friends is a Catholic priest and we have had loads of discussions over the past few years (usually fuelled by plenty of red wine). I asked him once if he truly believed.....and he said "I am as sure as I can be but obviously nobody really knows". He believes passionately in Jesus and his existence but says the whole God thing can sometimes floor him. We ended up talking about the vastness of the Universe and how it came to be and how it's so big it's difficult to comprehend.

I am now off to look at the link below which looks good.

sashh · 11/04/2015 09:47

Wow this moved on.

VikingVolva Nope atheist. On Dawkins' scale I'm past him.

Personally I think religion is a load of rubbish, but there is a time and a place to say that and the original post was not looking for that.

DioneTheDiabolist · 11/04/2015 23:24

King, I was not aware of that. When I was an atheist, I simply did not believe in god. It would not have occurred to me to hate a non existent god.

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