All welcome in Muslim tea room 3!

[squishinglittlefatcheeks]

Salaam and hello to all.

Thought I would take the liberty of starting a new thread as I didn't get to say Eid Mubarak on the last one and I do like checking in with you all

So come in, pull up a chair and have some lovely biryani - and there's baklava for dessert

Salams everyone

Thank you to madhairday, Luis, ninetynine, QofF, Mydelilah and Lambstales for your kind supportive messages. They really restore my hope in humanity. To be honest in one way the reaction that we have been seeing is the predictable, knee jerk one to a horrible tragedy such as this. It is to be expected that people will be angry and look for someone to blame. I think it takes a whole lot of compassion to be able to restrain that urge and instead reach out to others. I really admire all of you who have posted and you have really made me reflect on my own capacity for forgiveness ad mercy.

Tiptops I know its disheartening and upsetting to read all the negative comments about Islam and muslims. I would say try to avoid or limit your exposure to it. People are venting right now. They are not capable of rational discussion and your attempts to reason with them will fall on deaf ears Im afraid. A lot of the comments and thread titles I think are deliberately goady and by acknowledging them I think you will instead only provide a convenient target to hurl the vitriol at.

I think we also have to be careful to avoid being insensitive. It is not the right time to debate about free speech or double standards when people are still grieving over the horrific events last week. With regards to online insults I think we need to practice 'turning the other cheek' or at least hold our tongue ad have patience as we are instructed to again and again in the Quran.

"And be patient over what they say and avoid them with gracious avoidance." Holy Quran: Chapter 73, verse 10

And when they (the believers) hear ill speech, they turn away from it and say, "For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. Peace be upon you; we seek not the ignorant." Holy Quran: Chapter 28, Verse 55.

As you said the scale of the bigotry is so large now any attempts to counteract it would be totally drowned out. Also we dont know who these people are posting these comments. Could just end up wasting your time arguing with members of far-right, fascists groups.

I think it is much more productive to speak to people face-to-face the way that Littletulip did however unpleasant it can be. Most people find it harder to be abusive face to face so your more likely to have a reasoned discussion. We should be open to colleagues, neighbours, non-muslim friends etc who may have questions bubbling under the surface that they would like to ask a muslim and respond to them coolly and calmly. Being positive and building relationships is the best way to counteract the bigotry that some groups are trying to spread. Sorry if I seem a bit preachy. I have been thinking a lot on what has been going on over the last couple of days and wanted to share my thought with you.

On a lighthearted note take a look at this proposed invention sisters. The modern way to get your message across. I particularly found the made up reviews entertaining. Especially this one: “I was waiting to see Muslims denounce Islam. Until they do that, this app is useless.”

Or get our apologies across even.

At the invitation of Cresscentmoon may I please ask a question? I ask it out of hurt, not to start an argument:
Horrific as the killings in Paris are, it is possible to write it off as the work of a few deluded terrorists. If that was 'all', I could understand that 'ordinary' Muslims were as horrified as everyone else.
But it is not, is it?
I, as quite a few on the Christian prayer thread do, follow Canon Andrew White, the Vicar of Baghdad on Facebook. It is currently too dangerous for him to be in Baghdad.
I remember a day when he reported that 1000 people had been killed by IS or whatever they call themselves. Dear sisters, millions are displaced, hungry, cold, thousands of children.

How do you cope with the fact that hey are Muslims, doing what they do from an understanding of the Q'ran?
I apologise for any hurt caused to any of you.

I just wanted to say that you are all in my prayers, as are all my Muslim sisters and brothers everywhere. May God's peace and grace be with you all.

I pray also that God's word might be a balm to the souls of those who are driven by anger and hatred, on whatever side of the faith "divide" they may be, and that His love and mercy soothes minds and hearts. We are all God's children regardless how we choose to seek him or even i we do not choose to seek him at all.

Crescent, we are always told to show Christ to the world though our behaviour and our lives. We re to win people over by our example and to be Christ to those around us. None of us are so very different, really. it is always my prayer that people are able to overcome all this hatred, anger and judgement by quiet love and basic humanity.

Thank you so very much Crescentmoon. So much to take in, how ignorant I have been.

Crescent just read through and about to look at the links but what I wanted to say was firstly thanks for taking them time to post and then secondly - how similar in sentiment so many of those verses are to Christianity.
I remember watching an episode of the West Wing after 9/11 and that was the first time I came across the phrase that AQ is to to Islam what the Ku Klux Klan is to Christianity. I have often used that analogy in conversation since but I don't think I have ever felt it as much as I do now after reading your posts so thank you!

Thank you for those posts crescent. The saying about the young people burning the village is so apposite, and can actually be applied to many situations. I see it in the anti social behaviour of young people in care or who grow up in poverty and neglect.
I wonder how we change it. It seems the Muslim communities across the world are trying to bring the children into the village but it's too big a task to place on their shoulders. Especially when governments across the world (in all countries) make policies that are concerned with making money and almost deliberately marginalise the young, poor and uneducated, thereby fuelling the sense of being outsiders.
The Muslim country I know well, morocco, doesn't have a big problem with young people travelling to Syria, people are generally more content and have more sense of community. But there are huge swathes of unemployed and at risk young men who are not helped at all by the governments short sighted, tourism and business pleasing policies.

Thank you Crescent for your insightful posts. I benefited from reading them as well. Especially the verses you quoted from the Holy Quran. This is the Islam I believe in and why I can not find any justification for their sickening actions in our deen. I wonder how thy reconcile their actions with these verses? I saw an interview of the German journalist who went to Mosul the capital of Isis in Iraq. He confronted them about how their actions contradicted the core teachings of mercy and justice in Islam. They replied that this is not the time for mercy and they wanted to scare their enemies. This is not the answer of someone who believes that ultimately they will be judged by God. Who cares if you win over your enemy if the means which you use to do that are going to condemn you in the hereafter.

Dutch I couldnt have answered your question better then crescent whom i totally agree with. For me i would say their actions are not based on their understanding of the Quran but on their wilful misunderstanding. They manipulate religious texts to serve their political goals and when they are called out on it by muslims scholars and their fellow muslims they make takfir (basically declare them as apostates) on them. I often say to my dh if we were in Iraq despite being orthodox sunni muslims we probably would be killed by them too. I think these sorts of groups thrive on political instability and lack of law and order.

Just a quick note to say thank you to those who answered my post last week about giving blood in a local Mosque. I donated last night, I did wear a head scarf as I wanted to be respectful but I certainly wouldn't have needed to. It was a well run event, the session was actually held in a hall beside the Mosque (which was massive, could see it for miles away, had no problem finding it!) and everyone was friendly and welcoming. Thanks again!

Coming in a bit late - haven't been around on MN much - but just wanted to agree with Stressed and MHD, and to say that I stand with my Muslim sisters against the hatred that you face, and that I am praying for you, and for peace and friendship and fellowship between is. And crescentmoon, thank you for for posts - such learning and wisdom. you are a blessing to our community of the faithful here on MN.

crescent, you are so knowledgeable about your faith. Thank you again for our teaching. It is always blessing to read your posts.

I often think of these extremists as being in a similar vein to all those involved in the dreadful sectarianism here. They hate those who have a different kin of faith but yet have no understanding of the faith they are supposedly defending - nor do they really want any, because then they would have to modify their behaviours. The people involved in the anti-catholic stuff here are always the ones who have never set foot in church, read a bible or prayed in their lives. Ignorance and intransigence have a lot to answer for.

Totally agree Stressed. I have a lot of family in the west of Scotland, pretty much half catholic and half Protestant. Loads of hatred on both sides, proud wearing of their particular football shirt etc but none of them seem to have any particular faith. Or any knowledge of the differences and similarities between their 2 versions of Christianity. But they are more than happy to define themselves by the catholic or protestant labels.

Thankyou so much crescent for your insightful and informative posts and the verses you quoted too. It saddens me to think about how sick you must feel about the actions of these people and how some equate Islam as a whole with such actions (the comparison to the KKk with Christianity is a really useful one)

I feel the same when I hear about 'christians' bombing abortion clinics or in any way using violence. It's so sad that people are so ignorant about this and believe what they prefer to believe.

I find so many parallels in the verses above with Christianity too. We have much common ground and similar outlook and need to work together to promote justice and to educate people about what's really happening here. I've always thought it's the disaffected young men, the ones perhaps who for whatever reason feel no sense of belonging that join up IS etc in order to belong and to feel like they mean something. How can we show a different way where their lives mean so much without violence and hatred.

QofF, that's where I am from, a village attached to a new town on the North Ayrshire coast. It's any excuse to break out the union flag bunting here or march about chanting. In fact there were a whole bunch of young men from my village involved in the riots in George Square after the referendum in September, all proudly holding a banner with "The ** Boys" scrawled on it

They are just ignorant, disaffected wee boys who have been failed by the education system, have no hope of decent employment, some of them are 3rd generation without a job (it's a deprived, low work, low wage area) and sectarianism is ingrained in them. hey don't even know why they hate Catholics, they just do and it gives them a focus for their anger and a sort of sense of belonging.

Much like a lot of the kids who end up radicalised, I would imagine.

Salaam all,

Really loved reading your posts crescent, I learnt a lot from them.

Did anyone watch question time last night? I couldn't believe the rubbish being spouted out by the historian! Mehdi Hasan was good with his 'farting in solidarity' analogy

You have to have watched it to know what I am going on about!

I am glad the pope said what he did. of course its being taken out of context.

Personally, i am all for freedom of speech, but not at the expense of deliberately provoking or mocking another person

I think that the Pope made a HUGE mistake. People will put their own spin on it. At the end of the day he did not recommend turning the other cheek.

Salaam all.
I just wanted to say that I'm still thinking of all my Muslim sisters after the last few weeks.
I know that just because things have died down in the media it doesn't mean that the things you mentioned have gone away.

And cresentmoon when I read your posts above last night the one that struck me was the one about innocence.
Muslims all over have been called to bear the sin of people who have done the wrong thing.
I'm clearly not Muslim but think that this passage can be directed back at you and yours.
What happens is not your fault and I'm so sorry that many people have wanted you (Muslims) to comment or bear the brunt of the terrorists sins

Assalamualaikum,

Jummah Mubarak.

Please keep the Ummah in your duas todays sisters inshallah

especially three brother and sisters inshallah.