All welcome in Muslim tea room 3!

[squishinglittlefatcheeks]

Salaam and hello to all.

Thought I would take the liberty of starting a new thread as I didn't get to say Eid Mubarak on the last one and I do like checking in with you all

So come in, pull up a chair and have some lovely biryani - and there's baklava for dessert

Salaam all,HOPE YOU ARE ALL WELL.

oops! Didn't mean to shout. Hit caps lock by mistake but couldn't be bothered to delete as it takes too long so thought that i would explain instead which probably took three times longer!

I tried to find someone to come to the house to teach my DC the Quran but they charge £10 per hour per child! So that would be far too expensive for all my DC. It seems to be the going rate round here. Cannot send them to the mosque as my DCs seem to be the only ones who go to bed by 7pm whilst the mosque classes either start too early or finish too late!

Crescent, i couldn't be doing with weekly art homework from mosque/madrassah either. Still not quite over the easter bonnet that I had to do for school last easter! I am much happier being a killjoy and teaching DC times tables and surahs!

As for religious words, I am flexible. I love happy friday against jummah mubarak! But strictly speaking thats not a religious phrase! I am not sure i could do without inshallah. Could try to say God willing instead, inshallah!! That was my attempt at a joke. Quite unfunny, i know!

Will go with the flow with whatever everyone prefers.

Look at the time!

Goodnight!

Salamalaykum all

Thanks for the lovely messages. Littletulip and Crescennt glad to see you back again and welcome to the newcomers.

Elusive we didnt go for any of the names I listed in the end. We went down the traditional name route in the end but a less common one. Tbh I sort of wish we called him Muhammed now . At least people can say it fairly easily. As for online teachers we used one called studio arabiya which had really nice Egyptian based teachers. They had lots of male and female teachers who were quite well qualified and were teachers in Egypt as well. I know some uk based teachers too who i can ask for you and pm you their contacts.

Im finding it a bit easier second time round. I dont know whether its because ds2 is an easier baby then ds1 or because I just have more of an idea of what Im doing. Breastfeeding is much easier this time round. You know your body can do it so you kind of relax or thats how i feel anyway. With ds1 I think I visited the gp 3 times in the first 1/2 weeks over 'concerns'.

My big problem is overuse of telly as a babysitter for ds1. Because Im stuck at home (due to cs) and majorly sleep deprived I'll do anything for an easy life. Now Ive realised I have created a problem for myself when ds wakes up and the first thing he asks for is Bing and Upsy Daisy. Uh oh. We dont even have a tv! I think I will start restricting it more in the new year. Otherwise I will spend my whole maternity leave watching cbeebies on iplayer.

Salam sisters,

I've been on MN for a while, but only just came across this. I've seen some depressing threads on AIBU, and was so pleased to see some brave sisters willing to take the time to formulate sensible posts to put people in their place (serious patience involved!). So I realised there were a few more muslims on MN and here you are!

I'm a bit of a cheat as I'm not a mum yet - nearly 3 months pregnant though , so I'll be looking for your advice along the way.

Anyway, jum'ah mubarak, wishing you a nice weekend and looking forward to following the thread.

Wa alaykum salam Rumple

Welcome to the tearoom. Congratulations by the way on your pregnancy. Its always nice to see new sisters here and it is a great source of advice as is mumsnet in general. I think there are probably a lot of muslims on mumsnet who don’t know about the tearoom. This is a much nicer place to meet them then on those muslim bashing threads. I think I saw the ones you were talking about but I thought I would finally try implementing this verse from the Quran.

'And the servants of (Allah) the Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, [words of] "Peace!"' Holy Quran: Chapter 25, verse 63

I love that surah because I feel it really describes the type of behavior and character that a true muslim should have. I especially like how it instructs us to deal with people who are hostile and mocking to our faith.

'And [they are] those who do not testify to falsehood, and when they pass near ill speech, they pass by with dignity.' Holy Quran: Chapter 25, Verse 72

I saw a great video released on youtube a while ago by some of the leading, great Arab personalities and sheikhs in the Middle East advising people to react with calmness in the face of these sorts of abuses and insults, following the example of our beloved Prophet Muhammed PBUH.

I am starting to realise after wasting a lot of my own time on those sorts of threads that you can argue and argue with people until you are blue in the face but at the end of the day actions speak louder than words. People will have a better opinion of Islam if they encounter muslims in their day to day life who give them that better impression then what they see in the media.

Thanks for your post Peaceful, especially as I see from the thread that you're a busy mummy to a newborn and toddler! I hope you're having some peace in your day to day life!

I totally agree with your points on how to deal with antagonistic comments, and personally try to maintain a calm, positive energy rather than getting into rants. I'm so embarassed when I see muslims swear and get angry on social media - it just goes completely against my understanding of our faith. Like you, I've wasted time in the past trying to argue with people or justify my choices (I came to Islam in my 20s against my family's wishes), but now I realise that there is no point. I do engage with my family when they ask genuine questions, but I don't feel I need to apologise or justify anything any more. My husband is a vegetarian, and no one has ever asked him to answer for crazy animal rights activisits, so why should either of us answer for crazies acting in the name of Islam?

Anyway, yes, lovely to have a quieter space here to chat. Need to go get myself a (caffeine-free) cuppa .

Out of interest, how do you all deal with Christmas? Do the convert sisters struggle with family? Do any of you mark the day? Just interested in the variety of approaches.

Hello everyone

I hope you don't mind me posting here but I've just come across this topic and would appreciate some advice if you have any.

We are a Christian family but not practicing. My daughter is in a relationship with a lovely boy who is from a Muslim family. His background and his religion have never been an issue for us, but it seems that dd's background and religion is a big problem for his family.

I don't know what to do. My dd has been treated very badly by her bfs family while we have made every effort to make him feel welcome in our home.

Is there anyway round this? His mother has been abusive to my dd today and it turns out has called her some awful things in Arabic and English. She then phoned me and was extremely abusive to me too - the swearing was incredible.

I don't want to split them up but in turn, I don't want myself or dd subjected to this abuse because she is white Christian and therefore "below" her bf

Hi lazybint

Sorry to hear you and your daughter are having problems with her bfs family. They sound very rude. How does her bf react when they are rude to her and you? Are they giving him a hard time too or just your daughter?

Salams rumple

In answer to your question in my family we dont celebrate christmas day but we enjoy the season. For example we used to buy cards for friends but didnt exchange presents with family. Also i love seeing the lights and decorations go up around town but wouldnt get a tree or Christmas decorations for my own home. We dont cook turkey for christmas (we did get halal turkey once and found it to be quite a dry tasting bird) but i tend to stock up on mince pies. Oh we love the sales too and Christmas telly.

Im interested in how people with school aged children handle it. Right now my dss are very young and dont really notice anything is different but i think that will probably change when they are in school and see their friends getting excited by it. One thing i plan to do differently to my parents is make a much bigger deal of eid. We didnt get presents or put up decorations at eid time either but i know a lot of muslim countries make a huge deal about eid the way christmas is celebrated here and i want to do that with my kids too so they dont feel like they miss out if we dont do Christmas.

Thank you Crescent and Peaceful.

He is upset when his mother is rude to us. Rudeness though I can kind of deal with, but dd and I are treated with utter nastiness and contempt. All I have ever tried to do is be welcoming and supportive to her son and was warm and respectful to her when she came to my home too.

When my dd met his step father for the first time she introduced herself to him and he completely ignored her save for a dirty look. I could never treat a guest in my home that way.

They are young but seem sure they're in love, so as long as they are behaving appropriately I see no reason to stop them seeing each other.

Hi lazy,

I was your daughter once, to a certain extent. I'm white and my husband is Pakistani muslim. We've been together 8 years (we separated a few months ago, long story) and it took 4 of those for him to even tell his family about me. We literally had to duck and hide if we were ever out in public. It was awful and I hated it. He was too much of a coward to tell them, but I loved him so stuck by him. It got to the point where he was part of my family but I didn't even exist to them.

Turns out I got pregnant and met his mum for the first time when dd was a week old. It took another year and a half before I met his dad and siblings (except one sister who I was introduced to shortly after dd was born). For me the wait was worth it, they welcomed me with open arms and I'm part of their family now. We all get on great. Which is how it should be.

From your point of view, it's a good thing he's not lying about your daughter to his family and going behind their backs. But the way in which you have been treated is just awful, and not something which anyone I know would ever condone.

You see with Pakistani's (the ones I know anyway) it's all about how they look to their neighbours. And their son having a white girlfriend is shameful to them. Sad but true. They seem to have this 'acceptance' culture and deem it to be a privilige to be accepted into their family. Sorry that's a very general sweeping statement, but that's how it is from my eyes.

If your daughter and her boyfriend are serious then he needs to man up, the only thing being boyfriends/girlfriends aren't permitted in Islam, so marriage would need to be talked about.

If I'm completely honest I would tell your daughter to run for the hills. I have known many a girl be in this position and it doesn't change. At lot of my friend's husbands have had to take on second wives just to keep the family happy.

I hope this helps you a little bit, you don't have to put up with being spoken to like that. We are all equal, not one of us is any better than the other.

And sorry if I offended anyone.

Good luck and keep us updated

Salaam all.

Hope everyone is well. rumples i am not a convert but dealt with christmas by watching a lot of crap telly and eating more sugar than usual. Went to mum's for the christmas break and had a lovely roast dinner with the whole family. Took DCs to see christmas lights etc and they sang frozen songs in every street, shop and car park! Why oh why did I buy that dvd!!!

Didn't bother with the boxing day sales this year as black friday images disturbed me
I do need a bigger house with a garden but those are never half price!

Hi lazy bint, welcome to the tea room.

It is well out of order what the boy's family are doing. There is no excuse. I am quite appalled at his mother's behaviour. Can't speak for the Arab culture, but can say a little bit about the Pakistani culture. Lost has first hand experience of the delights and joys of dealing with pakistani boyfriends/husbands and the baggage family that comes with them.
It is true that many pakistani parents are unimpressed if their son is dating, regardless of the ethnicity of the girlfriend. If she is Englsh then they wonder how she will adapt to their way of life, if she is Pakistani then they wonder how she will adapt to their way of life! However, most families do eventually come to terms with it and are forced try to adapt themselves. Most pakistani boys are shit scared of their parents (with good reason ) but if they are serious about a relationship, ie marriage, then most parents will accept it - eventually.

I have seen quite a few marriages of Pakistani muslim men to white english girls and none were subjected to rude behaviour due to their race and religion. In fact, the girl's religion being christianity is seen as a positive thing as islam and christianity share many values and similarities. I won't pretend that it was all plain sailing. There were reservations on both sides initially, but it's nothing that cannot be overcome quite amicably.

In a nutshell, the guy's mother and father are being out of order. They have no right to phone you and shout abuse. The boy does need to address the whole situation though and shouldn't be putting you or your daughter in a situation where his parents feel that they can treat you both the way they are. When you say he is young, how young?

I meant to say as well lazy that you sound like a wonderful, supportive mum. Just like my own.

The more I think about it the more appalled I am at the abuse you've endured. That to me is more shameful than the relationship itself (not that it's shameful but hopefully you know what I mean).

Most Asian families are welcoming, but unfortunately you do get a small minority like this.

I so think many Asian parents think white girls aren't good enough for their precious sons, well I think it's the other the way round .

With regatds to Christmas I've struggled a bit with dd2 as it's her first year at school. I've let her join in with all the festivities but still reminded her we don't celebrate Christmas.

I still buy gifts for my family and they do for us. I visit them on Christmas Day and we have traditional roast dinner.

I find it quite hard as I know a lot of revert girls who have shunned Christmas completely and won't even wish their families a Happy Christmas. They cut themselves off from it all. Which I suppose is the way to do it, but I can't!

Lazybint i think its important to look at how your dd's bf reacts to his parent's bad manners as that like in most of the cases we see of nightmare in laws on mumsnet is the deciding factor of whether the relationship is sustainable. If he gets upset but doesnt actually say anything to his parents i would tell your daughter she has had a lucky escape. Its likely if their relationship became more serious i.e. kids and marriage and his parents continued their behaviour he would either not stand up for you all or would side with his parents expecting your dd to bend to their will to give him an easy life. If he does challenge the rudeness and tells his parents it is not acceptable then there may be a chance that they will accept her if they see they will lose their son if they dont. However i agree with lost that life is too short to put up with abusive potentially future in laws.

I'm so grateful to all of you for your advice and for taking the time to respond.

A great deal has happened and I'd like to respond properly to all of you but just have my mobile at the moment. When I get back and to my lap top I will post indepth.

Thank you all once again

Hi lazybint,

We will help in any way we can. The more I think about the situation, the more I think your daughter should get out of there while she can, unless their son takes a firm stand against this.

Hello all,

Hope you had a peaceful few days. Thanks for the Christmas comments - I like your balanced approaches elusive and peaceful (and agree that turkey really ain't all that!). In the past DH and I have spent a couple of Christmases with my family, who do celebrate, and a few just the two of us. When I first became a muslim Christmas was an incredibly difficult time for me, and I felt guilty even eating a mince pie. But now I think I've settled into a happy balance, wishing friends and family happy Christmas, which is made easier because my parents now wish us a happy Eid, and even send us a card bought from their local Pakistani shop, which always makes me happy .

I agree that it is harder with children in school, and think the big Eid celebration is a really good idea. Of course, avoiding the capitalistic gift-focus approach. But I remember a British muslim colleague talking about the joy of celebrating Ramadan in Egypt - they have lights up everywhere, a bit like a Christmas tree, and each night the put up a lantern when they break their fast. She said it was so exciting for the kids - who had often felt they missed out on Christmas in the UK - and I'd like to do that with our family in the future.

Lazy
I'm so so sorry to hear about the difficulties you and your daughter are having. How shameful that the mother in law behaved that way! Whatever some Muslims might think (ie those who pay more attention to their cultural attitudes than their religious teaching!), in Islam Christian girls are no less "worthy" than muslim girls, and our faith in no way condones or encourages anyone to be sworn at or disrespected in that way.

Many muslim parents would be unhappy about their children dating - whether dating a muslim or not - because they would consider this to be inappropriate and not allowed in Islam. However, if this is the case for the MiL, the way to deal with that would be to sit down with her son and talk about their beliefs regarding respect for women, respect for one's own body, and the sanctity of marriage. Her behaviour towards you and your daughter is far outside my understanding of my religion, and I hope she comes to her senses.

Do let us know how you get on, and if you need any thoughts from us. As others have said, you sound like a wonderful, supportive mum, who loves her daughter a great deal. It must be so hard to see her mistreated in this way - I certainly hope this doesn't continue.

You raise a really interesting issue Crescent - I remember being horrified when I first came to Islam and Asian friends were talking about marrying into the wrong "caste" and being "too dark skin to be choosy". It was just so unfamiliar to me, and seemed to go against all I'd learned about the religion! And while I believe I married the cream of the crop I know many new muslim sisters were lost without a strong family support, and were fooled into accepting less that they deserved.

I wish you all the very best for the year ahead. Insha'Allah we can use this time to reflect on the blessings of the past year, learn from our mistakes, and make plans for better lives in 2015.

I'd really like to thank you all for making me feel welcome here and for taking the time to reply to my post. It's much appreciated

Well, lots has been happening. I'm absolutely exhausted from it all. Plus I have this awful virus that is doing the rounds and have been in bed most of the day.

I seem to have gained another child - ss have asked that dd's bf stay with us for the time being. They are young, dd is 15 and her bf is 17. He is autistic and this has all been really stressful for him. At least here he is safe and well looked after and ss say that he needs the stability. It's a squeeze and difficult financially but we'll muddle along.

I haven't read back over my last post so forgive me if I repeat anything.

Dd's bf has challenged his mother over her treatment of dd and myself. This resulted in his uncle phoning me and telling me to stop dd seeing him. When I said I wouldn't - I don't think it's the right thing to do - he became nasty and made threats against dd's bf and said he was not to go back to him mums house. Dd's bf called the police and reported numerous assaults against him by his mums husband. Given the assaults and threats from the uncle the police advised that if he wanted to go home to get some of his belongings he should ask pice to meet him there to ensure his safety. We tried to get police to meet him there but they had nobody available, so my partner took him. I was in the phone as they went to the door incase I needed to call the police. He was locked in the house by his step father when he got there and I could hear him shouting "get off me" so rang 999. Police got there very quickly and helped him get his things and get out safely. His mum alleged that my partner tried to kick her door down - that didn't happen. My partner is a big, gentle giant and only went with him to make sure he was ok and so that he didn't have to lug his stuff back on the tube. The police spoke to my partner and were satisfied this didn't happen. His mother has refused to give him his birth certificate or passports. Not sure what we can do about this?

The next day the uncle called me and made threats against my partner - he threatened to cut off his legs and feed them to the pigs and said that he wouldn't stab him, he'd have him raped. Obviously this was also reported to the police and I have blocked his number.

I don't know what will happen now. We need to speak with ss again on Friday, they have been trying to speak to his mother for days but she won't answer the phone and when they called to the house she wasn't there.

I just hope I'm doing the right thing by supporting him.

Hi Lazybint, hope you are feeling better today.

From what you have said, your dd is very young. I was also expecting them to be in their twenties at the very least. At 15, your dd is still at school and I would also advise that as lovely as you have been about it all, that you should let SS find the bf the support that he needs. Even if they were both adults, I would have still advised that your dd gets away from them. Now that I know your dd's age, I would definitely protect your dd first and foremost. The bf needs support and now that SS are involved, hopefully they can find him the support he needs.