Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

[gingerdodger]

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

Hak you might not say it. However would you actually say your atheist and pacifist ideas do not affect your actions in any way at all, *Hak?

I not sure I would have made a declaration in the same way as the new Minister for Education. However I would not hide my Christian beliefs away.

We all have biases but need to work together through them in the best way we can. Politicians are never neutral.

I do see myself as wanting inclusion, but not in a homogenized way, everybody having to conform to an external norm, I want people to be accepted as individuals each with an individual contribution to make.

Making every child conform to one type of worship is not really going to achieve this though is it - how does exclusion (by opting out) promote inclusion? No-one is talking about excluding those with faith, just not inflicting it on those with different faiths or none.

It is the lack of choice that is so unfair. If you have a faith you have the choice to send your child to a school of that faith and engage in active worship as part of the school day. Or, you can send your child to a state school and they can still engage in an act of worship.

If you are an atheist you do not have that choice - you have no options other than allow your child to be indoctrinated against your wishes or risk them being stigmatised by being withdrawn from assembly - and however much you may not want that to happen, it does.

The suggestions as to how opting out could be better handled leave every school having to reinvent the wheel, and some will do it better than others. A change in the law to stop an act of worship being compulsory will give everyone the right to fully partake in school life, regardless of their faith or lack of it. Without this it really is a case of all animals are equal but some are more equal than others.

OneEgg

The suggestions as to how opting out could be better handled leave every school having to reinvent the wheel, and some will do it better than others.

In one way believe every school should reinvent the wheel so to speak. School communities are organic, ever changing. I believe education should change to cater for their changing needs, it should be responsive.

However I also value collective worship and I feel that schools should beheld legally accountable for providing this - otherwise it is squeezed out, as everything else is that they are not legally obliged to provide.

The way for opting in or out not to be discriminatory is for everyone to choose for their child, with no stigma attached and appropriate provision be made. This would allow the choice to be made much more freely and schools would have to get used to making provision for a more diverse range of needs.

"Hak you might not say it. However would you actually say your atheist and pacifist ideas do not affect your actions in any way at all, *Hak?"

If I was Minister for Education, I would expect my officials to let me know if I was showing undue bias.

I the bias undue though Hak? Everyone has biases. As an atheist, you have biases. You would prefer an opt in to collective worship as opposed to every parent choosing whether to opt their child in or out of collective worship (the more neutral choice).

^ Is not I. Typo.

"As an atheist, you have biases. You would prefer an opt in to collective worship as opposed to every parent choosing whether to opt their child in or out of collective worship (the more neutral choice)"

If collective worship remains compulsory, then I would be quite happy for parents to choose either way. The "opt in" by offering a space for silent prayer was just a way of making it fair as things stand now with only a minor change in what the Head says at assembly. A way of making it fair from the first day of the next term, with no need of a massive information campaign and questionnaires and so on. But as I said, not "worshippy" enough for the "I'm all right, Jack" brigade.

No massive campaign needed, a reply slip on the bottom of a letter, as there is for every school trip, would do initially.

Break in assembly then school split into groups either for collective worship or non religious activities. Consultation with parents should take place regularly and will inform the school as whether this is well received.

The thing is, you know damn well that's not going to happen. My suggestion could be done tomorrow. And would suit practically everybody.

And assembly, with no religious content, providing a silent period in order for children to pray or not, is not really providing much in terms of collective worship. It is just providing silence..

You're talking about no directed prayers, no hymns, no carol concerts, no Nativity plays. A lot of parents that I know value these things.

How do you know it would suit everyone? Any evidence. Do you think my views are not representative of anyone's?

And potentially Churches would remove remove their funding from voluntary aided schools, if they weren't allowed to have any part of school life.

That sounds great capsium. Our head took a year's sabbatical in my DDs last year at primary scholl, the acting head put on a musical version of Burke and Hare the Body Snatchers as the christmas play- the parents were on their feet with applause.

My DD was delighted as she had to play a corpse. A refreshing change from sheep on wheels and a plastic baby.

No I am not saying no carol concerts or nativity plays. I am saying no compulsory daily Christian worship.

"And potentially Churches would remove remove their funding from voluntary aided schools, if they weren't allowed to have any part of school life."

Good. Churches should butt out of targetting the young beccause they are easy prey.

I like a christmas sing song- in fact OH and I often attend the christmas eve service at the local church for a good old sing song. We also love Carols from Kings- sherry time in our house.

You don't mind what you're singing then combust?

I'm not sure the schools would quite so readily give up any additional funding.

Burke and Hare?! Whatever next? Sweeney Todd?

So I take it you don't have a christmas tree or give your kids easter eggs capsium.

Oh, and VA schools don't get additional funding. A tiny bit of their funding just comes from somewhere else.

So if you are singing it is not classed as worship, in your eyes,Hak and combust then?

It would be fine, in Christian collective worship terms, for the prayers to be sung...

I think we have the answer!

combust yes, but I use them as a symbolic reference in remeberence of Christ. The evergreen Christmas tree reminds us of eternal life and the Easter Egg of new life, rebirth, being reborn in Christ and the Ressurection of Christ.

Oh, capsium, don't be stupid.

Sorry, I can't cope with this thread any more.

The thought that the education is in the hands of somebody who's faith seems to justify them being selfish, intransigent and smug is just too depressing.

That elsewhere is often the church Hak.

More personal accusations...what makes you judge Hak?