Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

[gingerdodger]

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

No, capsium, It is because I do not want my children to have to pray in order to take a full part in the life of a state school.

I do not want them to be put in a position where in order to avoid "collective worship" they have to be taken out of assembly half way through in a way which will, without doubt make them conspicuous, or to miss everything that goes with assembly.

I do not see why small children should have to decide whether or not to put their hands together and pray because that is what the teacher, who they love and trust, is doing. I do not want children mechanically joining in with prayers when they are not old enough to decide actively whether they want to.

And I resist very strongly the idea that Christianity is the norm which one has to opt out of. Instead of a choice that you opt into.

Both of my suggestions- that while collective worship remains a legal requirement, it should take place at the beginning of lunch time, or that children should be given the option to pray if they wish (rather than not to pray) you haverejected as not worshippy enough.

And I resist very strongly the idea that Christianity is the norm which one has to opt out of. Instead of a choice that you opt into.

As I have said earlier the only neutral stance would be to state your preferences regarding collective worship when enrolling a child into a particular school.

Personally, I think the opt in/opt out would matter a whole lot less if schools dealt with exceptions to a comparatively narrow norm (in that there are probably more outside of the norm for reason or another) better and without stigma or discrimination. I believe that no child should miss out on any other aspects of school just because their parents have opted them out of collective worship.

I do value collective worship in schools so do think it should be compulsorily for schools to make provision for this, and at that good quality provision not just a hurried 5 minutes at lunch break. However I think it is terrible that children are being discriminated due to their parent's decisions. This happens outside of the collective worship issue and it is something I am vehemently against.

that is state your preference either way^ regarding collective worship is the neutral stance.

the option to pray if they wish (rather than not to pray)

I am happy with this if it includes the option to be led in prayer ie. the prayer leader can lead with a prayer said aloud.

"I am happy with this if it includes the option to be led in prayer ie. the prayer leader can lead with a prayer said aloud."

Why does it have to be said aloud? Would you not compromise an iota?

How could a child possibly achieve that.

Listening to a prayer booming in their ears and trying to think of other things. Impossible for an adult to do never mind a 6 year old.

Why does it have to be said aloud?

Because to be led in prayer, in order to pray in unity, usually involves the prayer leader, at least, saying the prayer aloud. It aids being able to pray in unity, pray the same thing.

Do you object to your children hearing prayers, Hak? If you do I feel the school should accommodate them elsewhere, along with the others opting out of collective worship and engage them in an alternative activity. This does not mean that they should be excluded from the rest of assembly, just that there would be a break in the assembly where the pupils divided into their respective groups. It is the sort of question schools should be asking parents, IMO.

As I have said. I do not object to my children hearing prayers.

What I do object to is a small child having to decide whether or not thy are going to put their hands together and pray because the teacher they love and respect is telling some of the children to do it.

And for children getting the idea that Christianity is th norm, and something you have to opt out of rather than in to.

Why won't you compromise at all?

combust are you telling me you never manage to tune people out? Maybe you might want to try, very useful skill. Anyhow the children opting out of collective worship needn't hear it - I am advocating a stigma free, alternative, enriching, activity for those opting out.

Hak You missed the bit where I said this:

As I have said earlier the only neutral stance would be to state your preferences regarding collective worship when enrolling a child into a particular school.

This involves all the parents opting their child into whatever they feel is the most appropriate activity for their child.

So I am prepared to compromise but on this occasion I will not concede.

" - I am advocating a stigma free, alternative, enriching, activity for those opting out."

But you consistently refuse to say how you would organise it. Because you don't actually care. So long as you get what you want. I have offered two perfectly acceptable alternatives. But you object to both. Because apparently your god can't hear silent prayer.

Hak I have suggested how it might possibly organised but essentially I feel the whole school community should be engaged to see what options are preferred.

The way I would see it going would be a break in assembly and the pupils splitting into different groups, some for worship and some to hear non-religious thought provoking stories/account, with reflection and singing of non-religious songs.

No you don,t capsium. You just want your way or the highway.

And it just sums up the way Christians think. So incredibly depressing.

And to think the new Minister for Education- Education I ask you- thinks she's in parliament to "follow the word of The Lord"

No you don,t capsium. You just want your way or the highway.

And it just sums up the way Christians think. So incredibly depressing

Hak Stop it. You are projecting something onto me that I am not. I have said what I want, what I believe in.

If you knew me you would know have been active in fighting to support parents in issues that don't affect my own child because I do believe schools should listen to parents and what they want for their children more.

What I would say, is that if you project negative associations onto people that are prepared to support you, but just do not wholeheartedly agree with everything you have to say, you will lose a lot of support this way. This hinders proper dialogue. It is half of the reason things do not change in schools IME...

And why should the new Minister for Education not be a Christian? People are allowed to be, you know.

Or would you have everyone declare their beliefs and attempt proportional representation of religious/non religious belief?

Might be difficult because a lot of people's beliefs do not fit into a neat bracket and then you would also have the all the problems associated with positive discrimination, which is still discrimination.

capsium the fact that you can't even see how selfish you are speaks volumes.

"And why should the new Minister for Education not be a Christian? People are allowed to be, you know"

Of course she can be a Christian. I didn't say she couldn't be. Just read my post.

combust the fact you quite happily judge me and call me names, such as selfish, speaks volumes...

Hak Being Christian involves following Christ in all aspects of our lives. So for the new education minister to say she is there to "follow the word of the Lord" comes with the turf. Her beliefs affect how she acts and she is honestly declaring this.

capsium I am not "calling you names" I am saying you have a very selfish attitude.

Splitting hairs there combust, who are you to judge whether someone, who you don't even know, has a 'very selfish attitude'?

Why is it acceptable for the education minister to state that she "wants to follow the word of god" can you not see how unacceptable that is to many people?

Can you imagine the Health minister or transport minister saying this- or indeed those responsible for foreign affairs.

It is disgusting.

"So for the new education minister to say she is there to "follow the word of the Lord" comes with the turf"

Well, she shouldn't accept the job, then. Her job as Education Minister is not to "follow the word of The Lord- it is to formulate policy which will best educate the children in this country regardless of their faith

combust

I can see anyone, who is a Christian saying it combust.

Christianity is not something a believer just hides away in a box. It affects every area of their life. How they think, what they say, what they do, what they like, what they believe. It is not something they should be made to feel ashamed of, although it seems this does happen.

And believe it or not we have religious freedom in this country.

I think you need to examine your disgust.

Hak

Well, she shouldn't accept the job, then.

So you'd make Christians unemployed in one great swoop then would you? Christians are whole people, with their Christian belief as part of them, they cannot just shut it off.

If I got the post I wouldn't say that I was there to promote atheist ideas. Or pacifist ones.And being an atheist and a pacifist is just as much a part of me as being a Christian is part of you.