Who Wrote The Gospels?

[headinhands]

"Matthew contains 606 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Luke contains 320 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Of the 55 verses of Mark which Matthew does not reproduce, Luke reproduces 31; therefore there are only 24 verses in all of Mark not reproduced somewhere in Matthew or Luke."

A good diagram here

Again caps you're arguing against your own position, you're largely pointing out how we can't possibly know anything and why a position of unbelief is the most logical.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evidence

Evidence as in 'an outward sign', a 'visible sign of something'. I said possible evidence because what has been described re. diversity in perceptions and physiology could be an outward sign of spirits working. It would fit the way spirits are described.

Again caps you're arguing against your own position, you're largely pointing out how we can't possibly know anything and why a position of unbelief is the most logical.

I am talking about how human kind cannot know, from a human perspective. The difference is we can come to know God, through Christ and He can lead us. God knows all things, in Him we know all things.

"Evidence as in 'an outward sign', a 'visible sign of something'."

Yes, indeed. And that 'something' can be something which exists in your brain.

Not outside your brain. The fact that the concept of god exists (in wildly differing forms) in people's brains does not mean that god exists in any other sense. It means that people can pontificate endlessly to each other about what god means to them - but you can't point to god and say 'that's what he is, that's what he looks like, that's what he does' because everyone's imagination is different.

Shipping I believe God also exists within the written word, in the Bible. He existed in Christ, who lived as a man on this earth. He exists in all of creation, in us. So it is an existence beyond the substance of people's imaginations.

"So it is an existence beyond the substance of people's imaginations."

Why? Because you and others believe it to be so? Please don't say it comes down to faith, because guess what, faith come from within (as in, in your brain ) too.

Shipping you'd not dispute that the Bible is about God, and His physical manifestation as a man, on earth Jesus.

The aspects of this which you would define as being true, depend on Faith. However the Bible's subject matter is clear. I think many historians believe Jesus, the man, existed. This is not merely imaginary.

The effects of belief sourced from within the Bible, other historical sources and the church ( ie. external to the individual) can have external physical effects. These effects are beyond the substance of imagination.

these effects are beyond...

Still no evidence though. It might be a small detail for you caps but I'm guessing it's a point you wouldn't overlook in an area of your life where it actually really mattered.

Belief and Faith, I agree are a determining factor in manifestation. God is a spirit. He works through people. However, I also believe, this world is made up of living matter, spiritual matters can affect all of it, interact and communicate with it.

head it is an area of my life which really matters.

And I actually do not think evidence, in the scientific sense, matters to me as much as it does you. The conclusions always involve assumptions.

I take heed of evidence, bear it in mind, but I do not place it higher than my Faith.

I am more interested in where people put their faith. However my Faith does not prohibit me from benefitting from scientific learning. Remember I said there is balance within Christian belief.

caps can you give me an example of a time you think you have ignored evidence where it generally matters?

No, because there is no proof it would have mattered. I've been ill and got better for example.

My DC was practically written off by some of the school, got a Statement with quite a high level of funding, which now has been ceased due to progressive improvements. I always expected this would be the case, in Faith. This was not expected by the 'professionals' though. Every annual review 'professionals' tried to down play any progress. My DC was not even assessed using the same assessments as the other children and during SATs papers (yr2) were downgraded , using the teacher assessment element. One year my DC did not do the same reading assessments and was just given a scheme grading based on, you've guessed it, teacher assessment. Yet the 1 to 1, which was fully funded, was being used as a class/school resource, covering PPA, group work etc. It was only with the new SEN legislation that the need for provision mapping threatened to uncover this officially that allowed for progress to be recognised and the fact I would not have colluded with their 'assessments'. Subsequently since, has undergone the assessments the others have and is ahead of where would be expected for age.

You see if I'd listened to the 'evidence', as presented, I don't think we would have been in the same situation. I think my Christian beliefs gave me the 'warning bells' that not everything was above board. At the beginning of the process, it became apparent there was a keenness to manipulate the evidence, present a one sided picture, in order to gain funding. Added to this I think I could have possibly given up hope if it wasn't for my Christian Faith.

^ oh and I was 'required' to volunteer for trips etc, even though a dedicated 1 to 1 was fully funded. Also had the part time 'flexible' schooling in reception, due to 'needs', not my choice either.

The thing is I felt I was caught between a rock and a hard place for a while. My DC did not appear to have the same right to an education you would generally expect. All this was wrapped up in risk assessments, perceived 'needs', 'evidence'. Extra funding was required and would be sought in my DC's name. I did help out to prove how achievable it was. On helping found that my DC was not the one that required the majority of my resource.

I could have believed them.

I also know someone who could have been dependent on diabetes medication now, if they'd accepted the 'evidence' that was presented to them, by a nurse practitioner. Their blood sugar was borderline / high. However, against nurse's advice, they bought a blood sugar monitor and made sure their diet was conducive to lowering blood sugar, and sought advice from the doctor. Decided to control blood sugar with diet. Subsequently found out it can be higher after surgery, anyway, which they'd had.

All too often I think a rounded, 360 degree view, of evidence is not presented. People all too readily manipulate the evidence to fit their own agendas.

This is why I am more interested in motives, where people place their faith. If funding is a strong motivator, I would recommend examining 'evidence' presented very closely.

"I think my Christian beliefs gave me the 'warning bells' that not everything was above board."

Couldn't you see this instead as parental instinct, and the fact that you were using evidence of your own, ie your own personal in-depth knowledge of your DC?

You see the thing with 'evidence' is that you have be proactive about looking for it. You cannot just expect it just to fall in your lap, or be handed to you on a plate, evidence received this way could be collected by someone else, with their own agenda. You cannot just dismiss evidence, out of hand either, because it is inconclusive. If it is inconclusive you have to look for more.

I believe, 'Seek and ye shall find.' and have not found this belief lacking.

So evidence then becomes about what you are looking to prove.....so what do you want to prove?

"All too often I think a rounded, 360 degree view, of evidence is not presented. People all too readily manipulate the evidence to fit their own agendas."

Yes of course. There are many situations where the evidence is imperfect and biased. But that doesn't mean should we discount all evidence-gathering for anything anywhere, does it? And you could of course cite the example of people quoting Bible texts as 'evidence' of how an external deity expects us to live our lives - that's a good example of bad evidence.

Shipping My instinct is strongly tied up with my Christian Faith though, it is the way it works. Christianity works on a spiritual level, that is subconsciously until you can more easily verbalize your hunches. I believe on choosing to become a Christian I am transformed from the inside out. Subconsciously at first, in my spirit, until this is worked out in my life and I learn what this transformation looks like.

I don't discount evidence, entirely. We live in an evidence based society. I just look for more based on my Christian hunches / promptings by the Holy Ghost and find it. The intensity of my search and what spurs me on to look, is my Faith.

I still don't see how that proves that Christianity isn't purely an internal process with external manifestations, ie that it involves a deity that exists outside people's minds and books.

It doesn't prove it Shipping. My point is evidence rarely does conclusively prove anything. There is always more evidence available, if you look.

More of our decisions are based on hunches than people might think. In this, motivations, affected by our beliefs, I think are key.Our motivations affect us at a subconscious level, inform our hunches.

So I chose to have Christ at the centre of my belief system. Belief does not require evidence, since it is belief.

So basically you're a Christian simply because you want to be, not because there's any objective evidence for being one? Well that's fine, I just wish that all religious people would recognise that to be the case.

It is part of Christian Faith, Shipping, recognising we have free will and can choose to believe on Christ, or not.

But since it is belief, a person, who truly believes, actually, believes it, which means they confess (talk about) it and live their life by it.

When God tells the world of his existence, he points to weather, animals and the world around us and above us and underneath us and the sea.

In short, nature.

[see the middle chapters of the book of Job in the bible [ one of my favorite books]