Who Wrote The Gospels?

[headinhands]

"Matthew contains 606 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Luke contains 320 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Of the 55 verses of Mark which Matthew does not reproduce, Luke reproduces 31; therefore there are only 24 verses in all of Mark not reproduced somewhere in Matthew or Luke."

A good diagram here

EP Sanders' The Historical Figure of Jesus is good on this too, he compares passages in the different gospels and draws some tentative conclusions about which episodes may have really happened and which were invented later to depict Jesus fulfilling OT prophecies etc.

I don't know any Christians who believe that the gospels were written by the disciples! There is lots of evidence for a later date of writing.

*In your heart of hearts, you know that the bible is true. And this frightens you very much. And makes you very angry. You find it deeply disturbing.

You are also angry at someone in your life who committed suicide over it all.

You think that the world is full of christians committing suicide, but it is not.*

Sheesh where do I start?

No, I don't know the bible is true, no it doesn't frighten me (are you frightened about the Koran being true?)

I can only assume you think I have lost someone to suicide because of this exchange we had a couple of weeks ago when you had the nn 'blupen'. We were discussing gods protection and you said you trusted god and I said 'what about Christians who commit suicide' and you said:

^Do numerous christians commit suicide?
I dont personally or any other way know any at all.

Do you know some?^

I was staggered that you would just assume that Christians don't commit suicide, sadly they do and at the same rate as non-Christians.

On that thread, as here, you lower the debate to ad hom assumptions about my character, my personal life and my past, assumptions that are downright inappropriate, never mind wide of the mark. It wasn't that long ago that you saw fit to say The op is the wolf in sheeps clothing poster so be careful on one of my threads.

Which is it? Grief fuelled anti-theism or the devil's own handmaiden?

When I studied my theology degree 20 years ago now, we were taught that Mark was probably the first gospel written (but the short version, that ends with Jesus's death - the resurrection account was a later addition), and then Matthew and Luke were written using both Mark and Q as their source. John is the gnostic gospel, so has things placed differently. However due to dating it was unlikely that any of these were written by the disciples themselves, but were later writings (from ad 60 to 100, but this is going from memory!). In the same way, only a few of the so called books written by Paul, are actually believed to have been written by Paul. They're called the "Pauline corpus", other books were written by his followers (non Pauline corpus) and some they're not sure about (debated corpus).

I'm sure the debate has moved on somewhat since then, but Throckmorton did a great copy of the complete gospels and included all the other ones like the gospel of Mary and gospel of Thomas, which are a bit more exciting!

"A bit more exciting"

Oh I know. I was watching that BBCfour doc earlier, is there a Gospel of Philip? My face was like this:

Which is it? Grief fuelled anti-theism or the devil's own handmaiden?

Not sure. Both? Especially the former.

Both? Nice twist. Which one gets the best costume? Capes, I like capes, gotta have a cape.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/2031792-genuine-question-from-atheist-view-on-Christanity-and-personal-responsibility?pg=2

You brought up questions about chrisitian suicide all on your own, about 3 times on this thread.

sadly they do and at the same rate as non-Christians.
And where you get this from I have no idea.
You have not provided a single thing to even begin to back this up with. It is like you are just posting it utterly randomly. Like me saying I have seen a totally purple with green spots sky.

I havent seen anyone, aethiest or christian, agree either. Unlike the bible.

None of the gospels were written by disciples. Mark is thought to be the first gospel written around 70. I started a-level religious studies believing the church school line that the gospel writers were friends of Jesus. I was shocked!

Christian article on christian suicide

I don't think I said it wasn't me who brought up suicide. I brought it up when you spoke about god's protection on Christians. Then you appeared to assume that because you hadn't heard of a Christian committing suicide that it didn't happen. And I'm staggered by your assumption to be honest. I've never heard of a window cleaner committing suicide but I know that means nothing.

It's actually a very harmful attitude, to assume Christians just don't commit suicide. I'd worry about Christians at your church who were feeling suicidal. To have he idea that you shouldn't be feeling that way and it's your fault god's not making you feel better, well, talk about isolating.

And I worry about you saints. I worry that if you ever felt suicidal, (and I hope to god you don't) that you would blame yourself and not seek appropriate medical help.

The American Journal of Psychiatry: "Religiously unaffiliated subjects have significantly more lifetime suicide attempts...than subjects who endorse a religious affiliation"

Does 'Religiously unaffiliated' include religious people who are not an active part of a big group? I would expect that to be the case. Generally anyone part of a large supportive group would fare better and it wouldn't matter if that was a church or a chess club.

Really anything sweeping that people say about religious people is likely to be wrong. I mean people used to say that Christians were more likely to be good people yet there are at least as many Christians in prison (in proportion to overall numbers) as non-christians.

Religion makes very little difference in most areas. If you think about it that's a little odd isn't it.

Interestingly the benefits of regular worship are seen across all organised religions which suggests the close social network is the common denominator and not the deity.

In the last census 60% of people in England and Wales considered themselves Christians. But only 10% of people claim to regularly attend church. That's a lot of Christians not going to church.

suggests the close social network is the common denominator and not the deity.

head You must see that this is a restrictive statement. It suggests people who live more isolated lives are doomed to mental ill health, or other negative consequences, when some actually find a quieter life very fulfilling.

This is where I can see the balance in Biblical thinking. It advices not to forsake meeting together however shows the benefit of people being able to spend quiet time with God, away from the masses.

^advises. Typo.

"It suggests people who live more isolated lives are doomed to mental ill health, or other negative consequences, when some actually find a quieter life very fulfilling."

Not at all - it is the results of empirical research. It doesn't claim to speak for everyone, let alone suggest people who live quiet lives are 'doomed'.

Similarly, the research on cigarette smoking suggests that in population terms people who don't smoke are healthier than those who don't. It doesn't say that all smokers are doomed to die from lung cancer. That's not how data-driven research works. It just pulls out the patterns from a large sample.

No one is allowed to kill anyone.
Killing yourself is a sin.
So if a person who did that, by definition, is not a christian

Mooncup

Maybe I could have said 'it could suggest' but I assumed this was implicit by using the word 'suggests' The suggestion, is what I see as a danger.

I'm with you concerning empirical research only showing patterns present in a large sample. Individual experiences cannot be necessarily predicted or extrapolated from empirical data...This was part of what I was saying.

It doesn't suggest that caps because the data doesn't show that everyone who lives alone is regularly attempting suicide does it.

Why is killing someone a sin saints?

Daft question.

Humour me. Why is it a sin?

head It could easily suggest that though, to some. Especially following on from what was said in sunnyspot's and Back's post.

The American Journal of Psychiatry: "Religiously unaffiliated subjects have significantly more lifetime suicide attempts... (sunnyspot)

Does 'Religiously unaffiliated' include religious people who are not an active part of a big group? I would expect that to be the case. Generally anyone part of a large supportive group would fare better and it wouldn't matter if that was a church or a chess club (BackOnlyBriefly)

That is why I thought clarification was necessary.

caps it would only suggest you were doomed if you insisted on taking a dichotomous view