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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Who Wrote The Gospels?

940 replies

headinhands · 10/04/2014 08:53

"Matthew contains 606 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Luke contains 320 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Of the 55 verses of Mark which Matthew does not reproduce, Luke reproduces 31; therefore there are only 24 verses in all of Mark not reproduced somewhere in Matthew or Luke."

A good diagram here

OP posts:
capsium · 20/04/2014 18:29

So you do judge then...on not very much information to. According to your assertion there are a lot of delusional people walking about.

BigDorrit · 20/04/2014 18:34

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capsium · 20/04/2014 18:40

BigDorrit At this point in the discussion I am reminded of Foucault's comment on insanity. He commented that madness has never had a definition which relates to 'absolute truth'. Instead by acquiring the power to define it, people have been able to use diagnosis of madness to gain control over people.

I hope to God you are not a clinician...

BigDorrit · 20/04/2014 19:10

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capsium · 20/04/2014 19:11

Well, you are not a clinician are you?

capsium · 20/04/2014 19:15

But you are arguing against the validity of Christian belief. Suddenly you come up with a comment regarding Christian beliefs being delusional...

This is where I see the connection to what Foucault wrote about.

BigDorrit · 20/04/2014 19:19

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capsium · 20/04/2014 19:25

Nor will it be, the last, I expect.

It is all dependent on how open you are towards attitudes that are different from your own.....what is regarded as 'bizarre', is subjective.

BigDorrit · 20/04/2014 19:27

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capsium · 20/04/2014 19:29

No. But I thought it was worth pointing out, to avoid misunderstanding.

BackOnlyBriefly · 20/04/2014 23:36

accept or reject new information merely on a whim That's not how it works for us, Capsium. None of the facts I know are chosen to be facts because I want them to be true.

And you are still mistaking what Cognitive Dissonance is if you think it's desirable.

As for Foucault he had a bit of a point about bias, but he had forgotten that real measure of reality that i mentioned before. That which trips you up if you don't look where you are going.

Some insanity at least can be defined as the inability to perceive that reality. There may be some borderline fuzziness, but if you meet someone who is pouring cereal in his ear because a six foot invisible rabbit told him too then I think it's fair to say that person has a problem.

capsium · 21/04/2014 08:24

Back , you need to refer to more of my post to make sense if it, to see the context of what I am saying.

BigDorrit I would say do not be so hasty to to free yourself from your Cognitive Dissonance that you accept or reject new information merely on a whim...the discipline that allows you to posses Cognitive Dissonance, in the presence of mystery, serves a purpose. It allows a person to exercise patience, whilst they consider all the information they have and patience, until they find out more. This allows them to be open to new ideas without rejecting lessons from the past prematurely.

This comment is relevant, IMO, to the definition of Cognitive Dissonance.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dissonance?show=1&t=1398064137

I am not talking about pouring cereal into ears, or invisible rabbits, either. I am talking about Christian beliefs. It is not only legal to hold Christian beliefs in this country, it is legal to, practice Christianity in this country. The reason I mention Foucault is that some would use comments which question a person's mental integrity, as part of a power struggle, in order to discredit their beliefs. I would not use terms such as 'delusional' so lightly and I would certainly not say the presence of Christian belief or any other religious belief is justification for this. Doing this would be tantamount to religious prejudice.

BigDorrit · 21/04/2014 10:30

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BigDorrit · 21/04/2014 10:31

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capsium · 21/04/2014 12:28

Your opinion BigDorrit, and one that a lot would disagree with since they believe in Christ. The Bible talks about what it means to truly believe in Christ too, it involves emulating Him.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father" (John 14 v12)

capsium · 21/04/2014 12:33

The link I posted does not talk about Cognitive Dissonance being good or bad either. However it does say,

"Cognitive dissonance is nonetheless considered an explanation for attitude change."

Sometimes I would say attitude change is necessary. It would not necessarily occur without Cognitive Dissonance. Added to which if people do not have patience and discipline enough to deal with the discomfort of Cognitive Dissonance they could accept or discount new information too hastily before they appreciate the full picture.

My views are merely an expansion, a comment on the phenomenon.

BigDorrit · 21/04/2014 12:41

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capsium · 21/04/2014 13:03

BigDorrit it would seem to me that you must have to go through life discounting the views of a lot of people, that is all those who hold religious belief.

Now could this sweeping dismissal, be the result of finding your own Cognitive Dissonance too uncomfortable to exercise the patience it would take get to the bottom of this matter and fully resolve?

capsium · 21/04/2014 13:14

If...

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

(Rudyard Kipling)

I remember this, in my consideration that Cognitive Dissonance is certainly nothing to fear.

ShippingForecast · 21/04/2014 16:08

"it would seem to me that you must have to go through life discounting the views of a lot of people, that is all those who hold religious belief."

But don't you discount the views of everyone who isn't a practising Christian? Since if you are right, they are by definition wrong?

capsium · 21/04/2014 16:18

Shipping no I don't discount other's beliefs, apart from matters of believing in Christ, that is, since I believe in Christ. However even if I believe them wrong in this matter, they can inform me concerning how others think and feel, their motivations and so on.

I believe everyone was made in God's image, so everyone will have something of God, who is good, in them.

So I aim to listen and fully consider other's views. Not that I always manage it....but it is my aim.

BackOnlyBriefly · 21/04/2014 23:08

you must have to go through life discounting the views of a lot of people

For me it's a long list, including:

All those who claim that the world is flat
Those who claim that water remembers ingredients
That all those who are born under the sign of Libra will meet a tall dark stranger this week (1/12th of the population?)
That the sun goes round the earth
That god reserves parking spaces for Christians
That people are full of lizards (or is it that lizards are full of people?)
That Allah is the only god
That Jesus is the only god
That a large hairy ape is one of the only gods and is strong enough to drop a mountain on other people's fake gods.

That's just a few of the ones that can be shown to be wrong.

Of course that doesn't mean we have to dismiss everything they say on every subject. Someone who can't divide 12/3 and get the same answer twice may still know how to grow really good roses or potato. It's the mistaken view that is dismissed and not the person.

Mind you if someone thinks that god sneaks around putting his face on peanut butter sandwiches then I am going to be wary of their opinions on other matters.

capsium · 21/04/2014 23:17

Oh, I just like puzzles Back...

BigDorrit · 21/04/2014 23:42

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BigDorrit · 21/04/2014 23:44

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