Does anyone else find the anti denominational school stance depressing?

[Plaza]

I recently read a thread where the majority seemed to agree that state schools should be secular and denominational schools done away with altogether.

I found this pretty depressing, no least as it would have been my personal view about a year ago... I have since moved my DC to a COE school and cannot praise it or the Christian ethics enough.. What do you think?

What atthestroke said.

merry- its the insidiousness of the indoctrination too.
I helped out in my DDs Non-denominatinal primary school and remember seeing a "nature table" crammed full of items. It was titled the "Table of Creation" and under that two headings - one was "Created by Man" and included items such as a toothbrush, tea bag, a key, and the other was "Created by God" and had shells, pine cones, leaves etc.

I saw purple. I knew the teacher was religious anyway- as was the Head- but to peddle this type of crap in achools is unforgivable.

atthestroke

I'm an atheist (funnily enough, so is DD's RMPS teacher!), and have no problem with schools teaching an awareness and understanding of different religions and cultures, and promoting debate.

"I'm an atheist (funnily enough, so is DD's RMPS teacher!), and have no problem with schools teaching an awareness and understanding of different religions and cultures, and promoting debate"

You're not saying that's what the "Table of Creation" was doing are you?

Sirchenin- RMPS (Religious, Moral and Philisophical Studies) is one of my (athiest) sons favourite subjects ( Scotland). He loves the subject and will be taking it to Higher level. A really useful and relevant subject. All the RMPS teachers in the department are athiest.

She said she turned purple Mart. I think that indicates extreme unimpressedness.

Ignore my last post.Am confused. Too much quoting going on.

As you were.

I know. I would have turned purple too. It was the following post that seemed to suggest that this was in some way intended to spark a debate about the origins of life among the 5 year olds that I was questioning.

Hmm, what natural but quite nasty thing could your dd bring in for the table of creation? A used tissue?

I agree atthe. DD intends to pick it up again later in school, which I'm really pleased about the fact that the RMPS teacher is gorgeous in irrelevant of course

No, that wasn't in relation to the Table of Creation!

Sorry for confusion.

My kids went to a "non denominational" primary school ( I use that term lightly!) head was fierce christian and employed a lot of christian teachers too. So a constant battle to allow my children to retain the unsullied default athiest position they were born with.

Secondary school - where they now is a different kettle of fish, athiest thought is respected, god is never wheeled out at assemblies, the head is athiest. Much more relaxed.

It is worrying that a head has the freedom and power to interpret the law into giving so much religious instruction.

Both dc went to a VA church school which had an outstanding OFSTED report. It was the worse school they went to. The last straw was when 2 boys had to be dragged off ds who was being beaten and punched by another mum at home time. We reported the incident to the HT and pointed the boys out to him. His reply was that we must be mistaken as they were good boys, they went to church each Sunday and refused to do anything.

My DCs went to RC school for elementary (to age 13/14) in the US and then public high school. As far as I could see, the elementary school encouraged a more conformist demeanour among the students, and unfortunately I think this translated into a tendency to exclude (socially) children who didn't fit a certain mould. Boys who loved Broadway shows and dance for instance. Girls who weren't interested in whatever the majority of girls in each class were interested in. It was subtle but it was there. I think the uniform actually enhanced the conformist effect. By contrast, the high school was radically inclusive. By law public schools in the US are obliged to provide an appropriate education for all comers. The local RC high schools did entrance exams so excluded low performing students, and could not accommodate students with disabilities.

In elementary the DCs learned the basics of the RC faith and went to a school Mass once a month. In high school religion came up in Philosophy and in World History. World History was a compulsory subject for most students. The course examined forces that affected history and hence religion making an appearance.

I personally think the English system is a mess. I like the separation of church and state in education in the US. It gives a real choice to many parents. Those who can pay for private/parochial schools get what they pay for and those who choose public can do so in the knowledge that they are getting what they expect too.

mathanxiety- not just England that's a mess- Scotland is too- unless you meant "Britain" which I am sure you didn't.

Another atheist here who wants their dc's to learn about belief systems in class. There is a HUGE difference between comparing and contrasting belief systems analytically in the classroom and encouraging a child to pray to a specific deity in assembly.

I also like the fact that church schools get no money from the state and never minded in the least that my tax dollars supported state schools while at the same time I paid fees for the parish school. Sending them to RC school was my choice and I was willing to pay for it, and I think it is important for others to have their choice too.

I probably meant Britain, sorry..

greenheart

"That schools have to teach RE which includes Christianity is something that upsets some atheists."

Nope. You will really struggle to find an atheist who objects to schools teaching about different religions. The key words there being 'different' - so not solely Christianity; and 'about' - so not presenting one religion as the absolute truth.

'If all schools were perceived to be good there wouldn't be this debate except for the atheists who want all religion out of schools'

I fail to see how this would help with the unhealthy segregation of different faiths, or the ridiculous situation where a child has to be driven past 3 or 4 "wrong faith" schools to get to the one they're allowed into.

sorry matanxiety- didn't mean to tease. Us Scots are a litttle sensitive in that area X

Schools can be secular in practice though. Dd's school is openly non-religious and certainly does not have a daily assembly of a Christian character. They do have a twice weekly assembly,but resolutely secular- the other week it was about how risky it was to drink from bottles or glasses with contents of unknnown origin - perhaps a veiled reference to beware of holy communion :)

That all schools have to have a daily act of worship that is broadly Christian in character is something that upsets some atheists even more.

It should upset everyone, atheist, Christian, Jew...................

Why on earth would anyone want to force another human being to pray?

Technically they can't, Zoe. I hope your Head has some good fudged paperwork waiting for OFSTED because otherwise he's in trouble.......

zoe- I agree, my kids go to a very secular non denominational school. Unfortunately they are not all like this, and it is very dependant of staff & head teacher.

Well it is Ofsted outstanding so they obviously weren't too concerned!

Once again- hope the Head's got his fake paperwork up to date!