genuine question from atheist - view on Christanity and personal responsibility

[kentishgirl]

Hi - promise this isn't just Christian-baiting.

I've come to the conclusion that Christianity is a substitute for having a personal conscience or taking personal responsibility. Being a Christian is like having a 'get out of jail free card' in that you are taught God will forgive you anything. So you can do anything, as bad as you like, go and pray for forgiveness and move on, slate wiped clean, feeling great about yourself. So it doesn't matter if you do wrong. As an atheist, if I do something wrong, it's always with me, it's always on my conscience, so that makes me always try to do the right thing.
I didn't always think this way. It's the only way I can make any sense of something that happened to me at the hands of a couple of serious, committed Christians. One of them even works full time for a church. They did something terrible to me but have shown no remorse, no guilt, and made no attempt to make things right with me. I'm positive they prayed for guidance at the time and then forgiveness afterwards, and now all's good in their world, while I'm still dealing with the fall-out.
Am I really wrong in interpreting Christianity in this way? Isn't it true that it enables horrible behaviour by teaching you that if you do wrong, all you've got to do is pray for forgiveness afterwards, and you are ok, never mind the effect of what you did? Basically if God is your only judge, and forgiveness is guaranteed, it gives you permission to act like a right bastard as long as you say sorry to God afterwards? there's no personal responsibility for what you have done.

capsium: "Cobra everyone has cognitive biases. Some have them in ignorance. Mine are not in ignorance so they are more correctly termed faith"

Looking to equate neural patterns with something you think might be in the bible is classic cognitive bias and increases the chance that a random passage will be spun to fit the pattern you are looking for.

I bet many people pray in A & E

They might be praying but that's neither here not there. It's the medicines and treatments that save lives. If prayer worked why do we see a clear link between the development of better medical care and survival rates. If prayer worked Afghanistan would boast the the best healthcare in the world.

Cobra tomato, tomato again.

The distinction I am making is I accept them, so am not ignorant of them, and thus call them Faith. As you choose how to exercise your Faith. Whereas if you do not accept and admit cognitive biases, we are talking about ignorance here.

your own personal choice

Either an interested god exists or he doesn't. I see no evidence so I have no choice. We're entitled to our own opinions but we're not entitled to our own facts.

head I never said working in the physical sense (medicine, practical help etc) does not work, neither does the Bible. We are physical beings.

We can also be spiritual. I believe the spiritual can affect the physical and is present in all life.

Capsium: "Magic? The correct term is generally thought of as miracle"

I could learn something here. What is the difference between the two?

head your own choice to believe only on the presentation if evidence. You will have some cognitive biases though, not to admit them is ignorance IMO.

Cobra Magic is done to esteem self, miracles to esteem God.

^^of evidence. Typo.

capsium: "have not shirked the responsibility for that recent tragedy. They are looking into dysfunctions within their whole society for answers."

What tragedy? Has Sweden had some ongoing disaster to grapple with? Do they need to ban stoning of adulterers or beheading of homosexuals?

Cobra came from a documentary on Sweden I watched. What one of the leading psychologists (from what I recall) said.

The tragedy was the recent(ish) shootings.

Oh just dawned on me you weren't referring to them Cobra actually it may not if been Sweden...sorry, my fault.

^of. Typo. Again!

Capsium: "Word salad? Well if you had exactly the same understanding and knowledge as me"

So why then can a 4 year old understand the concept of microbes, but it wasn't possible for a goat herder to understand it 2000 years ago, in spite of them being capable of understanding the power of an invisible deity?

Sweden has had some difficult things go on in fairly recent past though.

Cobra the point is in the OT times is was more difficult for a person to know/be close to/understand God than since Christ. The OT reflects this. It is why Salvation and Christ was needed.

A "fact" can be people's opinions.
Just see how often diet and food "facts" are changed.

I meant 'fact' in the science, not the layman's way.

Problems arise when people assume things to be facts. Like you did with Christian suicide and countries with lots of god worshippers.

BigDorrit

I think the point is, that in spoken English, the word 'fact' is commonly misused.

If you go with the concept of 'Living Language', this idea evolves into something even more complex. Placing emphasis on language being 'living' claims usage is 'king' and usage evolves, and meanings change, over time...

Yikes!

Wasn't it Norway that had that mass shooting? Unless there's something else? I think Cobra was refuting a claim Blupen made, not making a claim that countries with low religiosity have no crime.