genuine question from atheist - view on Christanity and personal responsibility

[kentishgirl]

Hi - promise this isn't just Christian-baiting.

I've come to the conclusion that Christianity is a substitute for having a personal conscience or taking personal responsibility. Being a Christian is like having a 'get out of jail free card' in that you are taught God will forgive you anything. So you can do anything, as bad as you like, go and pray for forgiveness and move on, slate wiped clean, feeling great about yourself. So it doesn't matter if you do wrong. As an atheist, if I do something wrong, it's always with me, it's always on my conscience, so that makes me always try to do the right thing.
I didn't always think this way. It's the only way I can make any sense of something that happened to me at the hands of a couple of serious, committed Christians. One of them even works full time for a church. They did something terrible to me but have shown no remorse, no guilt, and made no attempt to make things right with me. I'm positive they prayed for guidance at the time and then forgiveness afterwards, and now all's good in their world, while I'm still dealing with the fall-out.
Am I really wrong in interpreting Christianity in this way? Isn't it true that it enables horrible behaviour by teaching you that if you do wrong, all you've got to do is pray for forgiveness afterwards, and you are ok, never mind the effect of what you did? Basically if God is your only judge, and forgiveness is guaranteed, it gives you permission to act like a right bastard as long as you say sorry to God afterwards? there's no personal responsibility for what you have done.

I'm know that people can think things are real when they are not. For Christianity to be real there would be some sort of paper trail, some discernible difference in believers. The bible makes claims that just aren't backed up by reality, no miracles and so on.

So caps if you maintain that none of us can really know then you're on the wrong side of the fence in this debate!

There is a paper trail, as you put it head....the Bible, Christian witness, accounts of the Saints.

Discernible difference? Well, maybe you'd have to really know me and you both, to find out (as representative Christian and atheist).... but even then we would come from different starting points and backgrounds so what exactly the knowledge would tell you, I don't know. Also nobody knows anybody's true potential, from their human perspective. People cannot know everything about another person, from a human perspective, because they do not know their potential and have not lived their past.

head The human (flesh) part of me does not know. Christ, who is in me, knows everything.

The nature of our belief, our insight is the discernible difference, between Christians and atheists.

BigDorrit Where have I said I only read one book?

We 'live' the book(s) as we relate our own experiences to the ones detailed and view new experiences in terms of what is detailed in the book(s). The written word becomes part of our subconscious (unless we reject what it says) and we live it out.

You can also experience books, as they affect you emotionally and physically. (Increased heart rate for example when tension is created within the plot)

This (including the post above) is why I refer to books as being 'living' and as having 'spirit'.

You can 'experience' books in your imagination...visualise the events, empathise emotionally...

BigDorrit I never claimed otherwise. Of course we respond differently to books, we can accept or reject what we read. We all have individual human experiences and prejudices.

We choose whether to believe, though. If you choose to believe things which are outside of your direct experience, it is faith. People can choose to accept or reject Christ on reading the Bible or hearing it being read....

No idea how I feel about Scientology. Don't know much about it. I aim to respect every person I meet, as human beings.

Arbitrarily assigned Governmental posts are as valuable as the people who are assigned them IMO.

the human flesh part of me

There's another part that isn't??? [worried]

head Yes, I believe there is also your spirit (your essence, bit that survives after physical death).

But caps a book and witness accounts are not good enough evidence or else you have to believe everything and anything people have ever claimed (as far as I know none of the NT was written by people who would have met Jesus)

head I thought we had already had this conversation....?

"(as far as I know none of the NT was written by people who would have met Jesus)"

????? Where do you get that idea from?????? The Gospels are part of the new testament.

head or are you saying you just cannot know this?

Well, how can you know anything you believe from book?

The answer is you have to make a choice, in faith. It's why I speak of insight.

Why did you decide to believe what Carl Sagen (as you made reference to earlier) wrote, head?

But when you consider how many Christians there are you would think that, by now, there would be a discernible difference between them seeing as they have a god answering their prayers while the rest of us are left to fend for ourselves. Take suicide for example, Christians take their own lives as much as non-Christians. Wouldn't you expect some benefit of having part of the being that created the universe living inside you. It would seem, like us mere heathens, that the things that truly help us when experiencing the deepest despair are very earthly.

What Carl Sagan thing did I say?

head We have discussed 'discernible difference'. I believe everyone comes to Christ from different starting points, different life experiences, physiological differences that affect them in different ways. Some come to Christ very oppressed and damaged people.

As we grow in knowledge and understanding of Christ and respond in Faith, we overcome our difficulties in life. However this is is a process, we have to work our Faith out in our lives.

I do expect benefits and have experienced benefits from my Faith. Hope is a big benefit.

head Can't remember exactly..... Something about losing your previous Christian beliefs like the movement of the tides.

Can't remember exact reference. This came up on search though.

Add message | Report | Message poster headinhands Fri 15-Nov-13 14:50:19
It's funny how free thinking slips in through the side door. My foray into atheism started through star gazing in the back garden with DH. I then wanted to unearth the old 'Cosmos' series with Carl Sagan that is watched as a child. It was some of his thinking that prompted me to explore why and how I believed what I did.