genuine question from atheist - view on Christanity and personal responsibility

[kentishgirl]

Hi - promise this isn't just Christian-baiting.

I've come to the conclusion that Christianity is a substitute for having a personal conscience or taking personal responsibility. Being a Christian is like having a 'get out of jail free card' in that you are taught God will forgive you anything. So you can do anything, as bad as you like, go and pray for forgiveness and move on, slate wiped clean, feeling great about yourself. So it doesn't matter if you do wrong. As an atheist, if I do something wrong, it's always with me, it's always on my conscience, so that makes me always try to do the right thing.
I didn't always think this way. It's the only way I can make any sense of something that happened to me at the hands of a couple of serious, committed Christians. One of them even works full time for a church. They did something terrible to me but have shown no remorse, no guilt, and made no attempt to make things right with me. I'm positive they prayed for guidance at the time and then forgiveness afterwards, and now all's good in their world, while I'm still dealing with the fall-out.
Am I really wrong in interpreting Christianity in this way? Isn't it true that it enables horrible behaviour by teaching you that if you do wrong, all you've got to do is pray for forgiveness afterwards, and you are ok, never mind the effect of what you did? Basically if God is your only judge, and forgiveness is guaranteed, it gives you permission to act like a right bastard as long as you say sorry to God afterwards? there's no personal responsibility for what you have done.

Try imagining stuff and it happening, like with praying in Faith (in Christ). Whatever is God's will, you can have Faith that you will get it, if you ask. Just need to find out God's will, which is in the Bible.

Faith is a big thing to exercise wholeheartedly. Unbelief works against Faith, sadly.

I am just thankful for what has been achieved.

Unbelief can come from all sorts of places BigDorrit. Low aspirations, low self esteem, lack of Hope within common culture, people saying negative things, some Churches communities.

Cobra ^"As that's the Old Testament, and not directly related to the practice of Christianity"

The Old Testament is part of Christian teachings. It is the same God.^

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I had to wander off for a few hours...
It's my understanding that most Christians think of the OT as being part of Christianity the way a foundation is part of a building; not the bit you walk around and live in.
The more pertinent point, though, is that the particular sacrifice you refer to (or most of the others in the OT) is not part of the core belief of Christianity. Unlike the 'sacrifice' of Jesus, which is as central as it gets.
I could probably have been more clear about that.

capsium - in my experience, people with low self esteem will believe almost anything, and are often easy marks for those peddling religion.

capsium:Cobra You referred to a quote I made referencing a humanist perspective. I find it curious you could criticize God when you don't believe He exists. Without this belief you are criticizing humans.

Absolutely bang on the money. The character constructed by the ancients shows all the human qualities, which also means that he behaved appallingly at times. It doesn't stop some from claiming his benevolence and trying to spin the evidence.

So athiesm is a problem? If everyone on this planet had faith in a christian god them we wouldn't have starving children?

Capsium: "If you view a spirit as an agent, which can affect us physically and mentally, it can act in the same way as a virus."

Or it could just be a virus.

Capsium: "Regarding the radio: my later point pointed out how there can be interference in reception, something preventing the broadcast coming through, instead you hear someone's CB radio for example."

And this interference would be giving a completely different message, saying that you should love people instead of killing them?

i am just thankful for what has been achieved

And I'm guessing what you have achieved other people achieved without divine intervention. If god answers prayer then wouldn't we have even just one undisputed miracle somewhere?

Capsium: "For some mental illnesses talking therapies are used. In the Bible words spoken are of vital importance. Casting out demons is done by words. Similar to the way talking therapies are used now. If you look at how Jesus cast out demons, he spoke. It wasn't some grand thing either ,like in films...."

The talking therapy used by Jesus was a very short one; he simply said, "Begone". It should be in every psychiatry book. And wasn't casting them into a herd of pigs who then stampeded off a cliff quite a feat of showmanship?

Capsium: "If you are familiar with any 'Scaffolding' concepts in 'The Theory of Mind' you will understand how some knowledge is foundational. IMO the OT leads us up to Christ, who is our 'foundation stone.'"

How does this explain how the ancients would understand an invisible deity, but not an invisible microbe? My kids got the concept of germs when they were 4.

"casting out demons" can result in horrific mental and physical abuse.
For individuals already suffering a mental illness being subjected to an exorcism or even being led to believe that they have demons within them is abusive.

Disgusting to contemplate.

bluepen you urged lurkers to think about countries with lots of god worshippers as some kind of proof for god The most religious countries also enjoy the shortest life span, highest infant mortality rate, lowest education attainment, least access to adequate health care* and so on to name just a few.

You did the same thing on Friday when you appeared to believe that Christians never commit suicide. Your apparent ignorance on such issues is without excuse.

To save yourself from further embarrassment you should start reading around a given issue before posting your erroneous and ridiculous assumptions on the internet.

Capsium: "this is the sort of thing that comes to my mind when you grow used to reading symbolism and narrative features"

AKA cognitive bias

Cobra

Re interference: I was rather thinking the opposite way on. The interference preaches the stuff to do with death, murder, violence.

Re viruses: like the song, "... tomato, tomato, tomato, tomato, let's call the whole thing off..."

Re miracles: if you do not recognise the spiritual component all you see is the physical result / manifestation and declare it spontaneous, coincidence, unexplained.

Re talking therapies: Jesus did not need many words to heal. No vain repetitions there. He spoke with absolute authority. The evil spirits entering the pigs meant death for them, they couldn't tolerate it, as evil is connected with death, corruption, despair.

Re scaffolding: the ancients possessed knowledge (Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge) but not full appreciation of God. It was more difficult to be close to God before The Redemption Christ made available to us. They did not have the Comforter (Holy Spirit) live in the through Faith in Christ. In the OT The Holy Spirit is described as being kept in the Ark of the Covenant and put in the Temple. The priests were the ones to interact with the Holy Spirit, generally, and then they communicated God's messages back to the people.

bluepen: "God is allowed to kill. He owns everything and everyone. There is no escape. Resistance is futile. Utterly pointless and ultimately worse.
Hell exists. About 1/3 of the population are going there.
"

Now I believe that you have the one true God. The benevolence just shines.

atthestroke yes I know, sadly. Citing the Bible as an excuse for abuse is very wrong and horrible.

Jesus cast out demons with just a few words, no abuse. I liken it to speaking words of encouragement, reassurance and correction in terms of correcting dysfunctional ideas.

Cobra everyone has cognitive biases. Some have them in ignorance. Mine are not in ignorance so they are more correctly termed Faith.

Bluepen: "But for instance, look at the difference in countries that have lots of God worshippers, and those that dont."

Like Afghanistan and Sweden, you mean?