Is the Christian God's love unconditional?

[Woolmark]

Ok, some questions which have been playing on my mind, I am genuinely interested.

Surely his love is on the condition that you are a) a Christian and b) follow his rules?

Also, if God loves everyone as much as he does, why can't he save everyone by simply appearing to them? If I could save my children by doing this then I would in an instant, rather than turning up at the end and destroying the ones who weren't Christian.

I recognise that as a not going to answer that one headinhands!

I was going to answer no it doesnt make any difference. It doesnt to me, but I suppose it does to you really.
I suppose you sort of cant be angry with God because you no longer believe in him, so you are only left with being angry with yourself. Or maybe others.

It is a bit of a sad place to be. I would give you a hug if I could [hugs]

Yikes. Hope this post comes across how it is meant to come across.

I don't see how it's helpful to do this psychoanalysis on a poster, out loud anyway :) Either counter the points raised or not. That's probably the most fruitful approach.

I suspect my interest in it will wane over the years. I'm a bit like an annoying ex-smoker or similar.

Fair point. My randomly generated stats on infant mortality were out. Whack. 112 per 1000 for Afghanistan and 4.6 per 1000 in the UK. No excuse as saw a great program on world poverty stats the other week. Don't Panic I think it was called

Fair enough headinhands

I'm wondering why I'm here reading this thread...

With the analogy God (parent) humans (child), loving my child if they chose to ignore me I wouldn't describe their situation eternally without my love as a "Hell".
To me this twists and ridicules the meaning of love. Whoever wrote the above doesn't seem to understand the concept of love and yet I'm being told I'm missing out on this all powerful God's love.

head

I don't see how it's helpful to do this psychoanalysis on a poster, out loud anyway Either counter the points raised or not. That's probably the most fruitful approach.

We will answer you questions, or not. This is how Mumsnet works.

However we also can ask questions of our own. If you don't genuinely want to consider our answers at all, or answer any of our questions yourself, you have to admit that would demote us to being your playthings, as you would not be genuinely engaging.

No not at all, ask me questions about my belief/lack off and how I see the world working, I'd love that but I wouldn't delve into your personal situation when countering your questions. Generally debate works best without the ad hom stuff

I ask questions about your views not on your emotions/personal stuff though. I might speculate about stuff in my head but feel if I bought that to bear it just weakens my points and doesn't deal with the actual beliefs

head oh I see. I would not expect to know too many personal details. I can take you as read.

But I can see the point of asking, somewhat, since belief affects personality, personal situation and visa versa. Sometimes when people are trying to understand what you are saying they might ask for back story to see if they can ascertain what informed the belief. It adds credibility.

Beliefs become part of us, our reality. To attack beliefs can feel like a personal attack since belief is intrinsically bound up with who we are and how we see the world.

head have you ever read The Magus by John Fowles? It explores the effects of shattering belief and withholding truth.

I don't think religious beliefs are bound intrinsically. I can see how people feel that way, but you only have to look at how many people adopt the religion of their culture to see it's something you're indoctrinated into.

I don't think the back story is necessary though. It can lead to too much fallacious reasoning. No, you either can/do dismantle the point or you can't. An argument should stand or fall on its own merit. Often people tend to want a back story when they can't.

How can a person be apart from their Culture? It is part of them. So much is cultural.

But even that isn't intrinsic and learnt.

That is arguable head.

How can you be so sure? Belief (including cultural ones) can alter perception and in turn physiology which can be inherited. Have you looked at studies which show how trauma can affect gene expression and be passed down the generations? Have you looked a studies of the Piraha people?

This thread is amazing, just finished reading the whole thing. Off to bed now but will be back tomorrow to add my 2 cents worth

headinhands I am not saying that the majority world or global south or developing world or third world (or whatever you call it) is not a place where there is massive unfairness and inequality and massive injustice, I guess I was just saying that this is not because that part of the world is lacking in resources, it is because of human injustice. If those in the continent of Africa had their fair share of the resources from the minerals then they would be able to share in the whealth of the country.

For Backonlybriefly
I dont believe its the doubt but the lack of understanding, and those who dont understand about one another their not wrong is just they dont know bevause of lack of knowdlege and understanding.

Wouldn't you be at all culpable if you put your kids in an oversized cage with people you knew couldn't be trusted to behave fairly? I'd say you were responsible. I wouldn't just be unhappy with the people in the cage who allowed others to starve, because to be fair they are human and you KNEW they would do really awful stuff! That's without things like tsunamis, typhoons, disease and earthquakes.

Where does the cage come into it? Imagening a Tweetie Pie bird cage at moment! . Yes, I see where you are coming from but you make it sound like jail and if you wanted to put everyone outside the cage where would they be?

If Christians only wanted to hang out with other Christians would that be OK, Head? Genuine question.

The cage is the world. As for Christians only hanging out with Christians. You don't mean what I think you mean as in Christians being incapable of heinous acts? No, you can't mean that, sorry not sure what you mean?

Actually good point head Christians are capable of terrible things too! (Actually, the ones I have met are very nice but I know that not all are!)

So how do we divide the cage?

I can see your point head but I guess that's why we have laws and rules. So that people who do wrong things can be away from those who do not.

I guess the whole issue is freedom. Having freedom. And being imperfect. Anyway, I am glad you still engage with faith in some way because I still feel it is very important, it gives me hope. Bless you. . (Too tired to debate any more tonight but grateful for your indepth thoughts and questions). Nighty night.

headinhands- completely understand that analogy.

God sounds a bit like a guy who leaves a couple of pit bull terriers in a pit and sits back to watch them fight. Not his fault surely that they tear chunks out of each other- it's them that are doing the fighting, not him.

god obvioulsy has too much time on his hands, dreaming up these cruel amusements for himself.