Is the Christian God's love unconditional?

[Woolmark]

Ok, some questions which have been playing on my mind, I am genuinely interested.

Surely his love is on the condition that you are a) a Christian and b) follow his rules?

Also, if God loves everyone as much as he does, why can't he save everyone by simply appearing to them? If I could save my children by doing this then I would in an instant, rather than turning up at the end and destroying the ones who weren't Christian.

I'm not the all powerful/all loving force watching unspeakable things happen, I'm not the one who needs redeeming.

head so you are infallible?

I am never exactly sure where the evil one fits into everything.

But God will overcome him when the time is right. Something to do with the correct number of people going to Heaven. Or something like that.

I'm fallible

So we can do anything in our lives, abdicate all responsibility for our actions- as long as we accept jesus we will be forgiven then we won't be held accountable.
Quite disturbing.

Satan was created by the church in order to control.

msmiggins No. We can't. If we love Jesus we do His works. Which are good.

msmiggins. You have left out repentance. The person has to be sorry and mean it and try not to do it again.

When you say you lost Faith Head, what do you mean? Did you lose faith in god in that you realised that god doesn't exist or is he just not what you thought he was?

The former. I realised that my beliefs were illogical and couldn't sit together.

One persons illogical is another's paradoxical.

I like paradoxes. Can't get enough of them, it makes things all the more fascinating.

mrsmiggins, like capsium says, part of accepting Jesus is doing good and certainly being responsible. I'd argue that those who say they can abdicate their responsibility having been 'saved' do not know what salvation is. This would be an immoral stance.

But balance it with forgiveness. This is why I follow Jesus. Christianity is unique in forgiveness, of whatever crap we do in our lives. I love that about God - it's what grace is. What a good parent would do for their child - forgvie, and forgive, and forgive again, because they love them so very much.

So there is a sense by which we would not be held accountable for certain actions, but this is not an excuse for shirking any moral responsibility, but simply a consequence of grace offered freely. Those who do shirk responsibility and act how they like because they think grace is cheap do not have a handle on it. Grace is free but not cheaply handed out. Free to those who sincerely accept it.

But there are no true paradoxes are there. Something can only seem paradoxical because we haven't looked it it properly.

The forgiveness/repentance thing contains at least one flaw though.

I could do evil things and then genuinely repent them. Years later I could do more evil things.

If that change of heart doesn't happen in heaven then something has to be altered in me to prevent me changing my mind later.

I would like to do an add on to madhairday's excellent post.

That unfortunatly I know a couple of christians who think it is ok to sin and then ask God for forgiveness. And then sin again, and ask for his forgiveness.
I cant think that that can be right, even though they themselves appear to think it is ok.
I think that there has to be genuine repentance, and genuine remorse and genuine try not to do it again.

x post. Hope my answer answer helps BackOnlyBriefly.

I think the thing is, repentance for individual sins can be a process. Some people might mention 'Deliverance' from a particular sinful addiction for example.

God gives us Grace (special power to overcome), however we can only receive this Grace through Faith. That is we have to be satisfied God can and will deliver us. Sometimes it takes time to stop doubting and exercise Faith.

At the time we accept the Redemption Jesus' has bought for us, we repent of our sin (nature), our fallibility and receive forgiveness for sins past, present and future. Our Spirit is the part of us which is Redeemed and Saved. That does not mean we will never sin again, as our flesh (mind and body) still has to be renewed, there is some inertia / it takes time for our new natures to become apparent / time for us to become conscious of our new nature. However we are no longer slaves to sin (controlled by it / our old sinful nature).

^That is why people say you 'grow' as a Christian.

But yes, Faith without works is dead. Works are the proof of faith. However anything that is not done in Faith is sin.

^That is good works are...

And the old conundrum of atheist woman murdered by serial rapist who becomes a Christian just before he dies. He goes to heaven. Where does she go?

The murderer who was next to Jesus on the cross repented and accepted Christ as the Messiah. He went to Heaven. That shows how transformative Redemption through Christ is..

Hell I am afraid headinhands.
It pains me to write that.
It even pains me to read it.

btw we don't have Free Will in the UK.

I don't know if this messes up the Divine Plan, but we really don't. Not in the sense used in threads like these.

God can't stop a murderer or save someone from starving because it would negate Free Will, but our laws and police stop crimes all the time. We also feed hungry people which interferes with their right to starve.

Granted it's a bit haphazard because we lack god's resources, but we do prevent a lot of crimes and we do feed a lot of people.

Of course you might argue that we still have Free Will because there's nothing stopping us from wanting or trying to commit a crime, but that would be just as true if god reached down and stopped a murderer in the act. The murderer would still be free to try.

Obviously there's something wrong with the usage of 'free will' there. I would think it was only interfering with Free Will if god stopped us wanting to commit crimes, but if we define it like that it leaves no excuse for him not preventing the act.

We do have Free Will. There are consequences to wrong doing though. Never claimed any different.

Free Will does not prevent you helping people either. (They won't receive your help if they truly do not want it, they will fight it with every ounce of their being.) If they receive your help they have accepted it.

See, even as a flawed sinful human I can see that that outcome is morally repugnant. I can't worship a god that is so inferior to me.

Gold can't you see that it pains you to type that because you've realised you're morally superior to the god you believe in?