spirit in my house frightening my DD...

[hollowhallows]

I have NC for this.

OK, I know some people are going to think I am a crank, but here goes...

I have been aware of a spirit/s in my house since I moved in. In my family we are thought to have 'the sight' and it has been very real to me from the experiences I had growing up and experiences I continue to have. I'm not talking miracles or talking to the other side, just an ability to sense what others cannot, such as aura and spirits etc...

Because I was aware of spirits myself as a child from my own experiences, I was always aware that my children could experience the same thing. I have dealt with having 'the sight' (I don't know what else to call it, I know 'the sight' sounds cheesy) and as I have grown older it has bothered me less and I fear the things I sense a lot less. I hope this is all making sense, I usually keep this to myself

Well now my DD has started to very obviously see something that is frightening her. It is starting to become more frequent and is really upsetting her. It is always in the same place in the lounge and she runs over to me upset, crying and pointing towards whatever it is she can see. She tries to tell me but her speech isn't good enough yet, but her actions and feelings are very clear. Tonight she was so upset by whatever it was that she started crying and covering her eyes so she couldn't see it. I tried to encourage her to show me what it was that was upsetting her in case it wasn't what I thought, but she refuses to even venture to that side of the lounge when this happens. This has been going on for about 6 months but is now becoming more obvious.

I am not religious, I am not overly superstitious, but this is the one thing I genuinely believe in because I have experienced it myself. I have read stories by other MN's about their children telling them they had seen peculiar things so I'm hoping to get some input on how to handle this (and not be mocked in the process). When I sense something myself, I just ignore it. I'm not sure how to handle my DD possibly seeing things that are upsetting her.

Why not?

Because she very clearly wants help bouldering her faith, and I don't have any experience of having an ill relative that I can draw on to support her.

"Curlew, your childhood story was a case that was easily explained. What I meant in my post was have you come across less easily explained phenomema (such as the OP's) in your investigations?"

We don't know that the OP's case is less easily explained. It took a long time for my sceptical parents to work out what was going on- if they had been "believers" they might never have found the obvious explanation. If you have the "paint splash" mindset, all psychic phenomena are easily explained. If you have the "she must be seeing a spirit child that wants to play with her" mindset then they aren't.

So in all your years investigating, you never came across an incident that wasn't explained?

I left my keys on the hall table when I came in yesterday, I just found them on the mantel piece. Here are some explanations:

a, my long departed grandad's ghost moved them as a way of saying 'hello' or

b, an Invisible pink unicorn carried them there on its horn.

On reflection both a and b are equally as likely as they both have as much evidence for their existence (in other words, none).

Once you remove evidence when you formulate an explanation then the sky is the limit.

"So in all your years investigating, you never came across an incident that wasn't explained?"

"Investigating" may be a strong word- but in all my years of reading and listening and talking-no I haven't.

I've been reading the thread with interest (and sometimes a or face).

OP, I think you're right to neither rule in or out any specific explanation for what your DD is experiencing, and I think that you've taken the steps that seem right to you, in the circumstances.

I find it difficult when people categorically say that there are no ghosts. Just because we don't have proof now, doesn't mean we won't have it in the future. Equally, I find it difficult when people start bringing everything down to psychological problems. There are cases when what we see/feel/experience defy rational explanation. I'm happy to accept that sometimes I can't explain what happened.

Headinhands your example reminded me of something that happened many years ago. I was visiting a friend, and we were going out. We'd got ready and she'd left her hairbrush on her bed. As we went out, she locked the door. Nobody else had a key or access.
When we came back in, the hairbrush was on her dressing table. I have no explanation for how it came to be there, neither has she. My (overly rational) DH, who has heard this story many times insists that my friend or I must have unknowingly put the hairbrush on the dressing table.

Your DH is completely correct.

It is far more likely that you moved it and forgot, than a ghost moved it.

Honestly, I find it incredible that people make shit up rather than using common sense.

There is not proof that ghosts exist in because they don't, not because we haven't found the proof yet.

Techo dad.. I find it incredible that you are so without empathy for other people that you insist on coming back on this thread to dismiss anything that's said. Why? Why does it make you so stabby that there are people who believe in ghosts?

If another person came on here and said their daughter was scared of a dark corner in the lounge and that they believed it was because there was an invisible evil alien clown from the planet Ziffoid would the woo believers nod along agreeingly, because they'd have no reason not to seeing as they've already decided to believe things without any evidence. Its one thing to believe in ghosts for entertainment purposes, it's another to actually use it to explain stuff that's happening to your kids.

Nobody has suggested that it has been used as a reason to explain it to kids and certainly not the OP.

Or maybe you read a post of the OPs that I didn't?

No that was me reading your post wrong.. apologise.

Just because you don't believe doesn't make it wrong. The OP is a believer and to rubbish that isn't helpful.

Apologies Curlew, I mistakenly believed that you had been personally involved in investigations.

However as your knowledge is made up of what you have read and remembered is it not possible that your assertion of all cases having a medical/material explaination could be an example of your own confirmation bias in action?

It bothers me for the same reason that it bothers me that people don't vaccinate their children, or that people don't believe in global warming, or they make false claims against the use of GM food. All these things defy scientific understandings.

It frustrates me that people don't deal in evidence in this world, and use non-specific language to explain things they just don't understand - with varying degrees of negative impact. These impacts range from a scared little girl all the way to deaths of millions of people from AIDS or starvation.

Sure, believing in ghosts might seem harmless, but the use of the thought process which leads to believing in them, can be far more damaging in other contexts.

When my kids grow up, there is a pretty good chance that there will be food shortages, extreme weather and plagues and it will be caused by the fact that society "believes" what it wants to, with no evidence, rather than listening to scientists and people who have undertaken credible research. We believe headlines or blogs from idiots, but never listen to the scientifically backed argument (or get conned by pseudo science).

So, that is why it pisses me off, because we are all too fecking ignorant to listen for the benefit of my children.

Does that help you understand?

Techno, vaccination refusal can reduce herd immunity and therefore pose a risk to your offspring. Global warming denial and GM scaremongering could lead to a reduction in food supplies and therefore could pose a risk to your offspring.

What risk to your offspring is there in someone believing in ghosts?

"What risk to your offspring is there in someone believing in ghosts?"

People believing things in defiance of logic and reason causes harm to society as a whole. Children need to learn about critical thinking, about how to analyze evidence and how not to have to wool pulled over their eyes. By anyone- including big business and government. Hence the reference to global warming,

My son used to freak out at one particular spot in his bedroom. As he got old enough to speak he would say "scary mummy" and letter "scary ghost". Always one spot in the corner of his bedroom. As he got to about 4 or 5 it settled down and we forgot about it. then we moved house as he was coming up for six. when I was setting up the bedrooms in the new house I was putting most of the stuff that had been in his room into his younger brothers room as he was getting his own room and the younger stuff. As I was putting up his old lampshade, a white floaty gauze one with jungle animals on it, he came him and said "oh good you're putting the scary light in his room not mine" and then "make sure you turn it eo

Round so he can't see the scary lion ghost from his cit like I could". felt guilty for unwittingly scaring him in his cot for all those years. always a rational explanation IMO. Think you'd be better servers comforting her and allaying her normal childhood fears than reenforcing them with ceremonies and shouting at ghosts.

I have met athiest homophobes, misogynists, vaccine refusers and global warming deniers. We all have beliefs.

But just because someone has a belief that differs from yours doesn't mean that all of their beliefs do (for example you and I have agreed on the MM threads Curlew). Nor does it mean that their beliefs pose a risk to your offspring.

Targeting people and heaping all your fears on them because they believe differently to you on one aspect, be it religious, scientific, political is incredibly dangerous to all our offspring. As history shows us.

You got the SHINING, boyyyyyyyy.

People believing things in defiance of logic and reason causes harm to society as a whole

Exactly!

"Targeting people and heaping all your fears on them because they believe differently to you on one aspect, be it religious, scientific, political is incredibly dangerous to all our offspring. As history shows us" Yes. And if anyone was doing that it would be wrong.

So what you are saying Head is that people who do not believe as you, Curlew and Techno do, harm society as a whole.

Seriously?

Curlew, Techno did just that. He himself said that the OP's belief in ghosts was harmless. He then went on to say that people like her (based only on her belief in ghosts) were dangerous.

Individuals aren't necessarily dangerous on a case by case basis (although, often they are) if the believe is something like ghosts, but as a society, the impact of this ignorance is a powerful and dangerous influence.

I should add, that I think the media holds a huge amount of responsibility here. Even the most respected of R4 news programmes will give equal airtime to the anti-GM campaigner as it does to the lead scientific GM representative. The reality is, they should give an appropriate amount of airtime based upon the value that each side of the debate has, rather that trying to demonstrate "balance", which just confuses people.

It is like giving a holocaust denier the same airtime as a trusted WWII historian to debate who is correct - it just wouldn't happen. The news would report that they is uproar against the holocaust denier, not give him or her a louder voice.

So, for example, the news should report that some idiots people think that the MMR vaccine cause autism, then a credible scientist representing the vast scientific majority should be interviewed to explain why this is bollox and how dangerous these people are. There should be no counter argument or discussion in front of the listener, because this discussion has already taken place within the scientific community and the conclusion has already been reached.

Headline news: Some people believe in ghosts - but actually they don't exist. End of story.