spirit in my house frightening my DD...

[hollowhallows]

I have NC for this.

OK, I know some people are going to think I am a crank, but here goes...

I have been aware of a spirit/s in my house since I moved in. In my family we are thought to have 'the sight' and it has been very real to me from the experiences I had growing up and experiences I continue to have. I'm not talking miracles or talking to the other side, just an ability to sense what others cannot, such as aura and spirits etc...

Because I was aware of spirits myself as a child from my own experiences, I was always aware that my children could experience the same thing. I have dealt with having 'the sight' (I don't know what else to call it, I know 'the sight' sounds cheesy) and as I have grown older it has bothered me less and I fear the things I sense a lot less. I hope this is all making sense, I usually keep this to myself

Well now my DD has started to very obviously see something that is frightening her. It is starting to become more frequent and is really upsetting her. It is always in the same place in the lounge and she runs over to me upset, crying and pointing towards whatever it is she can see. She tries to tell me but her speech isn't good enough yet, but her actions and feelings are very clear. Tonight she was so upset by whatever it was that she started crying and covering her eyes so she couldn't see it. I tried to encourage her to show me what it was that was upsetting her in case it wasn't what I thought, but she refuses to even venture to that side of the lounge when this happens. This has been going on for about 6 months but is now becoming more obvious.

I am not religious, I am not overly superstitious, but this is the one thing I genuinely believe in because I have experienced it myself. I have read stories by other MN's about their children telling them they had seen peculiar things so I'm hoping to get some input on how to handle this (and not be mocked in the process). When I sense something myself, I just ignore it. I'm not sure how to handle my DD possibly seeing things that are upsetting her.

[headinhands]

I said your analogy was false and explained how.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I know that you said that my analogy was false Head. You also stated that you based this opinion on speculation, as you are not familiar with the actual arguments used by ASD deniers.

So you don't know that my analogy is false. You speculate that it is.

[headinhands]

The deniers reason is bytheby in the analogy, I don't imagine I'm wide off the mark though.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Head, you've clearly put some thought into this. Tell me, what do you think of Curlew's migraine analogy?

[headinhands]

In your analogy a poster is providing a contentious opinion that doesn't carry the weight of data on that issue, ie autism not existing whereas the actual ops situation is reversed i.e.they have made an assumption that there is no evidence for. In curlew's analogy iirr it wasn't weighted either way and was actually being gracious to the op in their depiction. I doubt if MN would delete the contentious poster in your analogy, it might not be received by the op in the spirit it was intended but would provide a great opportunity for the poster to have their belief examined.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I fear you are too generous to the ASD deniers in your imagination Head. Far from accepting the evidence for autism, they produce evidence of their own.

They tell the OP that there is no such thing as ASD. They claim to have evidence. They make helpful suggestions to the OP regarding diet, exercise and parenting.

They are not there to offer support and an alternative solution, they are there to start a debate with people they know do not believe as they do.

[headinhands]

Again the weight of evidence is on the side of the skeptic with regards to the ops issue. Either way an asd denier is welcome to post on such a thread but am sure they'd get the full weight of the MN collective cross examining the claims.

[headinhands]

The evidence for autism is a triad of impairments, impairments that anyone could observe whatever their opinion on the diagnosis/label of autism. With ghosts there is no such correlation. There's no data that can be impartially repeated, examined and tested.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

You're right Head, I didn't weigh up the weight of evidence either way when I thought up my analogy. I posted it because of the similarities between Techno's first post and another I saw on the ASD boards.

It was deleted. A support thread should not be hijacked by someone seeking to grind an axe. They should start their own thread.

And Techno has done just that. But he should have done in last week, not waited until he'd totally derailed the OP's.

Anyway, I get that you think my analogy is false.

[headinhands]

Which brings me back to the possessed thread I mentioned. Her thread was 'hijacked' by people denying her chosen explanation of what was happening. Why was that okay?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I didn't see it. I can't believe I missed it..

[headinhands]

Would you have suggested she do something that implied you also thought she was possessed or would you suggest something that revealed you didn't think she was? Would you say 'contact your pastor to perform an exorcism' thereby validating her belief or 'I don't think you are, I think you should discuss your feelings and symptoms with your gp'. What are your thoughts on possession? You think it's real? If not why? Loads of people claim to have either been possessed or seen someone possessed. If you do believe in it how could you be sure the poster wasn't possessed?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I have no idea what I would have said. I didn't see the thread.

[curlew]

But presumably you wouldn't have suggested that she might not actually be possessed because that would be disrespecting her beliefs?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I have no idea what I would have done. I might have read and replied. I might have asked questions. I might have put on my watch list. Or I might have reported.

I didn't see the thread so I just don't know. Can you remember the replies?

[gamerchick]

You can't possibly say what you would have said. It's not like there's a standard response to certain topics

[headinhands]

I thought the standard around here was to respect the beliefs of the poster?

[gamerchick]

On a ghost thread worded like the OP of this massively hijacked thread.. I would say yes.

[curlew]

Yes absolutely. The starting point, according to many posters is "respect the beliefs of the OP- she is not asking for a debate, just for advice." So why can't people say what their starting point would be with a woman who thought she was possessed?

[headinhands]

Okay, so the starting point is respecting the op's beliefs, I'm sure we'd all like to be able to do that and, for the main, I think posters do approach each thread with that in mind but when would you feel confident in suggesting an alternative explanation. at what point would you think it necessary to disregard the preconceived explanation of the op when offering advice?

[headinhands]

What's being done here is I'm testing the hypothesis, that we should respect the op's beliefs, to destruction. Doing so allows me to pull apart and examine the whys and wherefores of the assumption to check it logically fits together, and I say it doesn't.

I say that while it appears good and positive on the surface to hold such a tenet, in practice it's irrational and potentially harmful, and the possessed thread gives us a nice sharp example of why. (I have tried to unearth the thread but can't find it)

This thread appears less defined, possibly because it's not the child posting herself and hence we feel more removed from the situation. I'm not sure.

If the child could post and said 'there's a horrible monster in the corner of my living room and I'm scared' how many of us would say 'yes, there probably is a something horrible lurking in your living room but don't be scared'. Bear in mind that the child would need to be taught the construct of ghosts to even use that label which is why I've used monster, a word more environmentally familiar to young children.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I think my starting point on a thread asking for help is can I help this poster? If I read a post and felt I couldn't help, I may not reply or I may simply urge the OP to seek RL help. Not all problems can be solved by posting.

What I would not do is disrespect the OP as it would at best render my advice obsolete (they wouldn't listen) and at worst, it would make the OP feel worse. Nor would I hijack a thread to grind my own axe. If I felt so strongly, I would start a thread of my own. Techno has done that, but it took him a week and the derailment of a thread seeking help for him to do the right thing.

[headinhands]

The ops dd was scared. Posters saw that and felt buying into the belief in ghosts would only exacerbate it. I thought we'd agree'd last week a blanket respect for beliefs is unworkable and potentially harmful?

So this possessed girl. You'd say 'you probably are possessed but go to the dr anyways yeah?'

[headinhands]

If you want suggestions of only a paranormal nature about a scared child you probably shouldn't post on a public forum where lots of non believers will be. If I posted that that I had a headache and someone said they were sure it was spiritual I'd either ignore or enjoy examining their belief. Them not believing what I believe doesn't damage or harm my (non) beliefs. The only harm it might do is to my ego (can't see how) but hey, I'm an adult and when I come on a public forum I do so knowing I'm part of a conversation I can't control and will be exposed to loads of alternate ideas, and I like that.

[headinhands]

And that analogy is about hearing very alternative views before we spend the afternoon doing analogy dissection Why get offended? What harm does it do? We're surrounded by differing beliefs all the time, How can you meaningfully interact with people if you try to engineer it so you don't come into contact with other opinions?