spirit in my house frightening my DD...

[hollowhallows]

I have NC for this.

OK, I know some people are going to think I am a crank, but here goes...

I have been aware of a spirit/s in my house since I moved in. In my family we are thought to have 'the sight' and it has been very real to me from the experiences I had growing up and experiences I continue to have. I'm not talking miracles or talking to the other side, just an ability to sense what others cannot, such as aura and spirits etc...

Because I was aware of spirits myself as a child from my own experiences, I was always aware that my children could experience the same thing. I have dealt with having 'the sight' (I don't know what else to call it, I know 'the sight' sounds cheesy) and as I have grown older it has bothered me less and I fear the things I sense a lot less. I hope this is all making sense, I usually keep this to myself

Well now my DD has started to very obviously see something that is frightening her. It is starting to become more frequent and is really upsetting her. It is always in the same place in the lounge and she runs over to me upset, crying and pointing towards whatever it is she can see. She tries to tell me but her speech isn't good enough yet, but her actions and feelings are very clear. Tonight she was so upset by whatever it was that she started crying and covering her eyes so she couldn't see it. I tried to encourage her to show me what it was that was upsetting her in case it wasn't what I thought, but she refuses to even venture to that side of the lounge when this happens. This has been going on for about 6 months but is now becoming more obvious.

I am not religious, I am not overly superstitious, but this is the one thing I genuinely believe in because I have experienced it myself. I have read stories by other MN's about their children telling them they had seen peculiar things so I'm hoping to get some input on how to handle this (and not be mocked in the process). When I sense something myself, I just ignore it. I'm not sure how to handle my DD possibly seeing things that are upsetting her.

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

OP, if you're still on this thread PM me. I believe I can help you.

[headinhands]

'Who actually have the experience that they require'

Again there is no consensus on what they require, the range of suggestions is diverse.

And any discussion that doesn't care to establish what is, and isn't real, is unhelpful and pointless.

[headinhands]

The use of the word 'attack' when referring to a discussion on beliefs is highly misleading and used as an appeal to the emotions in a bid to prevent examination. How does it affect that persons beliefs if another poster doesn't share them and explains why? How do you attack a non-physical 'thing'. If another poster said to me ' I think what you (don't) believe is false for this reason etc etc' has that person attacked my thoughts? No. You can't attack or diminish my thoughts. You might challenge my thoughts, you might make me realise my thoughts don't actually fit together logically and that some are contradictory but you can't attack them. I might realise my thoughts don't make sense but I would need to agree with what you are saying for my thoughts to be altered.

[headinhands]

What makes you think it was hushed up previously? I think what is new is the opportunity for such beliefs to be examined robustly.

[headinhands]

'Believers who know exactly how to assist'

Not on this thread there isn't. It's a mixture of 'tell it to go away, talk to it and/or waft some lavender sprigs about. How 'exactly' is someone to assist?

[IndigoBarbie]

"headinhands Sun 03-Nov-13 14:49:44
If you want suggestions of only a paranormal nature about a scared child you probably shouldn't post on a public forum where lots of non believers will be."

Yes, but there are lots of believers who know exactly how to assist, and at times it's hard work attempting to defend to those who do not know how to assist and sometimes only exacerbate, and just for clarification I am not getting at you.

It's actually refreshing to think that some people look to MN'rs for advice of this nature, instead of hushing it all up like it was in the olden days.

Technodad was quick to point a finger at me for somehow looking to make some cash for assisting this poster. The reason I quite often do not post on this forum anymore, is because it is utterly tiresome to have to battle with the many viewpoints on here. I can't think of one time I've ever attacked or challenged another's beliefs on here. I have requested advice and opinions of others plenty of times, as I have found solace and friendship on MN.

I offer my help in a genuine capacity (just as many other posters do regardless of their beliefs etc) and NO, I cannot prove I see ghosts, angels, fairies, and yes, unicorns and speak to them on a regular basis. I am able to see into other dimensions and help others who are experiencing out of the ordinary happenings. I use my gifts for the good of others, so it doesn't really register to me that they are not real. My experiences are not repeatable, measurable, or for some of the time 'explainable' to others and hence, if anyone wishes to flame me on threads I pretty much let it go over my head.

The thing here is though, do we constantly want to perpetuate a debate about what's real and what's not real, OR, allow an open minded discussion with practical and useful advice for those MN'ers to come and know that they can seek out help, from genuine people, who actually have the experience that they require to assist them?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Head, who agreed that and when?

[headinhands]

And that analogy is about hearing very alternative views before we spend the afternoon doing analogy dissection Why get offended? What harm does it do? We're surrounded by differing beliefs all the time, How can you meaningfully interact with people if you try to engineer it so you don't come into contact with other opinions?

[headinhands]

If you want suggestions of only a paranormal nature about a scared child you probably shouldn't post on a public forum where lots of non believers will be. If I posted that that I had a headache and someone said they were sure it was spiritual I'd either ignore or enjoy examining their belief. Them not believing what I believe doesn't damage or harm my (non) beliefs. The only harm it might do is to my ego (can't see how) but hey, I'm an adult and when I come on a public forum I do so knowing I'm part of a conversation I can't control and will be exposed to loads of alternate ideas, and I like that.

[headinhands]

The ops dd was scared. Posters saw that and felt buying into the belief in ghosts would only exacerbate it. I thought we'd agree'd last week a blanket respect for beliefs is unworkable and potentially harmful?

So this possessed girl. You'd say 'you probably are possessed but go to the dr anyways yeah?'

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I think my starting point on a thread asking for help is can I help this poster? If I read a post and felt I couldn't help, I may not reply or I may simply urge the OP to seek RL help. Not all problems can be solved by posting.

What I would not do is disrespect the OP as it would at best render my advice obsolete (they wouldn't listen) and at worst, it would make the OP feel worse. Nor would I hijack a thread to grind my own axe. If I felt so strongly, I would start a thread of my own. Techno has done that, but it took him a week and the derailment of a thread seeking help for him to do the right thing.

[headinhands]

What's being done here is I'm testing the hypothesis, that we should respect the op's beliefs, to destruction. Doing so allows me to pull apart and examine the whys and wherefores of the assumption to check it logically fits together, and I say it doesn't.

I say that while it appears good and positive on the surface to hold such a tenet, in practice it's irrational and potentially harmful, and the possessed thread gives us a nice sharp example of why. (I have tried to unearth the thread but can't find it)

This thread appears less defined, possibly because it's not the child posting herself and hence we feel more removed from the situation. I'm not sure.

If the child could post and said 'there's a horrible monster in the corner of my living room and I'm scared' how many of us would say 'yes, there probably is a something horrible lurking in your living room but don't be scared'. Bear in mind that the child would need to be taught the construct of ghosts to even use that label which is why I've used monster, a word more environmentally familiar to young children.

[headinhands]

Okay, so the starting point is respecting the op's beliefs, I'm sure we'd all like to be able to do that and, for the main, I think posters do approach each thread with that in mind but when would you feel confident in suggesting an alternative explanation. at what point would you think it necessary to disregard the preconceived explanation of the op when offering advice?

[curlew]

Yes absolutely. The starting point, according to many posters is "respect the beliefs of the OP- she is not asking for a debate, just for advice." So why can't people say what their starting point would be with a woman who thought she was possessed?

[gamerchick]

On a ghost thread worded like the OP of this massively hijacked thread.. I would say yes.

[headinhands]

I thought the standard around here was to respect the beliefs of the poster?

[gamerchick]

You can't possibly say what you would have said. It's not like there's a standard response to certain topics

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I have no idea what I would have done. I might have read and replied. I might have asked questions. I might have put on my watch list. Or I might have reported.

I didn't see the thread so I just don't know. Can you remember the replies?

[curlew]

But presumably you wouldn't have suggested that she might not actually be possessed because that would be disrespecting her beliefs?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I have no idea what I would have said. I didn't see the thread.

[headinhands]

Would you have suggested she do something that implied you also thought she was possessed or would you suggest something that revealed you didn't think she was? Would you say 'contact your pastor to perform an exorcism' thereby validating her belief or 'I don't think you are, I think you should discuss your feelings and symptoms with your gp'. What are your thoughts on possession? You think it's real? If not why? Loads of people claim to have either been possessed or seen someone possessed. If you do believe in it how could you be sure the poster wasn't possessed?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I didn't see it. I can't believe I missed it..

[headinhands]

Which brings me back to the possessed thread I mentioned. Her thread was 'hijacked' by people denying her chosen explanation of what was happening. Why was that okay?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

You're right Head, I didn't weigh up the weight of evidence either way when I thought up my analogy. I posted it because of the similarities between Techno's first post and another I saw on the ASD boards.

It was deleted. A support thread should not be hijacked by someone seeking to grind an axe. They should start their own thread.

And Techno has done just that. But he should have done in last week, not waited until he'd totally derailed the OP's.

Anyway, I get that you think my analogy is false.

[headinhands]

The evidence for autism is a triad of impairments, impairments that anyone could observe whatever their opinion on the diagnosis/label of autism. With ghosts there is no such correlation. There's no data that can be impartially repeated, examined and tested.