YEC part Trois

[PedroYoniLikesCrisps]

So we're still going, perhaps not as YEC as originally, but there's some good debate still occurring! Can we link from previous again?

Sabrina See your point. I should have said the Bible (in it's entirety) is literal and symbolic, not isolated quotes. You have found a lot of symbolic quotes.

I still have a problem myself with literal and symbolic since I believe there is symbolism in life.

January I would say trust your heart but it does rather depend on whether your heart is true.

Btw I know the earth is (roughly) spherical.

Sabrina I would have to go back and read the whole chapter or more and receive revelation. I take it it is prophecy so partly symbolic and partly saying what will happen.

I know you seem to want to catch me out but I can only tell you what I know, which is not everything.

I think you need to look at by what you mean by literal. Most Christians would agree the bible is not plainly written and understood (sorry Best I know this is one of your assumptions) It doesn't make someone a bad Christian it makes them a sensible one.

Sorry I have avoided this but it is bugging me. When you say recieve revelation do you mean a 'light bulb moment' or do you mean somethong else?

something

This is an old one, but Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

1. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

1. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

1. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

1. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

1. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

1. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

1. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus, Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

Sabrina I would have to go back and read the whole chapter or more and receive revelation. I take it it is prophecy so partly symbolic and partly saying what will happen.

See, I find that sort of answer faintly annoying. Either the bible is the word of god, or it isn't. You're trying to have it all ways, and then say that you need some sort of 'revelation' to actually understand it?

Little wonder people like Peter Sutcliffe claim that 'god told me to do it' as an excuse for their atrocities.

January Yes revelation could be described as light bulb moment.

Yes, my understanding of literal is problematic. Don't know how to resolve that though. I have tried my best to explain myself accurately as possible.

So you think that what's written in the bible is actually more valid than scientific research?

can I ask again why would God write something it takes a revelation to understand? Why wouldn't he write plainly for all?

It's the Emperor's New Clothes, innit?

To me, yes.

Not that I don't read any research I just relate it to what I know of the Bible. The stuff that fits, increases my revelation, deepens my understanding is great.

The stuff that doesn't fit I question and keep on seeking out more information (Bible wise and Science wise.)

^ That's not yes in terms of Emperor's New Clothes!

I could say the same about some 'bad' science which you would then probably call pseudo-science , except it wasn't at the time.

January Because seeking Him is more important than worldly knowledge.

I think I need to back off a bit. You believe what you believe on faith and thats fine. I would ask, in return, that before you try to teach others on anything other than faith you have evidence aside from faith or declare your hand up front.

Evolution does fit, though. And with a lot more physical evidence than anything written in the bible.

The bible can't even describe the shape of the earth correctly. Oh, but that's ok - that bit's just "symbolism."

January OK by me, in my mind I was questioning...I could never claim to be able to teach on science. Sorry if you got that impression. I thought I had made this clearer than I seem to have.

Because seeking Him is more important than worldly knowledge.

That sort of thinking would have kept us in the dark ages, still thinking that the earth was flat.

Sabrina There's meaning in it though (the symbolism). I still hold out on evolution though, as Darwin described it.

saying you only take evidence that fits and question the rest is like having a theory that 100 test subjects suffer from an illness. 1 test result comes back positive and the rest negative then still declaring that every subject has the illness because you got a single positive result.

Everything needs to be questioned whether it fits or not

Sabrina People can be Christian and be part of the scientific community you know.

Would you prefer we had all been kept in the dark ages, taking the bible literally, reading about the slaughter of children for their parents sins, and then praying for revelation then, daftdame?

Evolution is exceptionally awkward for people who want to take the bible literally, that's why people make careers out of denying it.

But you know it's not just a theory, don't you? You did read those nice links I put up about all that stuff....?

Sabrina People can be Christian and be part of the scientific community you know.

Yes, I know that - I already said it. But you seem not to want to be part of the scientific community, because scientific discovery raises awkward questions about what's written in the bible.

Sabrina and January you are attempting to tell me a lot about what I believe in.

No, I don't wish I lived in the middle ages, or that we were in the dark ages.

The analogy about the theory on illnesses just doesn't fit either.

Your attempts at trying to describe my pattern of thought have failed, since I don't think that but still hold with what I said.