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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

The Muslim Tearoom

999 replies

HardlyEverHoovers · 20/03/2013 15:25

Salaams/peace to all! I'm already missing our old thread, so taking the bull by the horns and opening our very own Muslim Tearoom, all welcome (non-Muslims too of course), to chat, share, ask questions etc etc. Imagine a cosy cafe with floor cushions, tea and coffee of all kinds, and lovely cakes! Please join me!

OP posts:
MareeyaDolores · 09/05/2013 00:41

Restorative justice

crescentmoon · 09/05/2013 08:10

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CoteDAzur · 09/05/2013 14:03

"in the UK victims of violent crime can be awarded a payment from the criminal in lots of cases"

Like in most places, I would imagine, but this payment does not let the criminal get away without a jail sentence. You get the punishment the law says you get for the crime, and on top of that, you pay for the damage, loss in earnings, etc that you have caused.

"in turkey..."

Don't get me started about the travesty that legal system has become in Turkey in recent years. In any case, it doesn't have diyya and I not think of a word that would be its equivalent in Turkish.

"is the emphasis in criminal law about what laws have been broken? who did it? and what does the offender deserve?"

I believe this is what all Western law is about, yes.

"or is it about who has been harmed? what are their needs? whose obligations are these?"

Where is law about any of that? I'm guessing that you didn't go about finding out exactly who was harmed by that man's death, but just gave the money to a family member. What about his best friend who maybe can't get over his death, the company he was working at where maybe he was a key man and they struggled after his death? Did he have a mistress who loved him? She needs a man to keep her warm at night and whose obligation is it to find her another man now?

"does diya mean they have escaped punishment or is it also not a punishment itself?"

Well, he escaped prison for life and is now out living his life while the man he killed is dead and buried, so yes, we can safely say that he has escaped punishment by buying it off.

"witnesses to crimes being bribed or intimidated not to appear in court"

There is something called forensic science these days, that has largely diminished the weight of unreliable eye witnesses.

Not that it's even relevant. This isn't about identification of the criminal, it is about what to do to him once he has been identified and found guilty. In a diyya system the suspect can also refuse responsibility and then you would still need eye witnesses, forensics etc.

crescentmoon · 10/05/2013 04:26

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crescentmoon · 10/05/2013 04:32

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crescentmoon · 10/05/2013 04:40

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Sweetsandchocolate · 10/05/2013 21:24

Salams to you all. I have a question regarding breastfeeding - I'm going to a big Bengali wedding on Sunday, I'm an English convert and my DH is Bengali, and its his cousin's wedding so there will be a lot of people there we haven't seen in yonks. We will have to travel about an hour and a half to get to the wedding and will be taking our 3 DC, youngest is 5 weeks old and he is on and off the boob 2 hourly, if I'm lucky. I don't want to wear a sari because I'm hopeless at fixing it so will be wearing salwar kameez, the long heavily embroidered sequinned kind that will have to be virtually taken off to bf. my question - can I bf in the main wedding hall if my DH covers me with a big scarf? I don't want to go all that way and end up spending most of it in the toilets feeding iykwim!

MareeyaDolores · 10/05/2013 22:00

What about a lehenga choli (skirt kameez)? The blouse doesn't need to be this skimpy, actually the tight sari blouses are a nightmare for feeding anyway.

Tbh, I'd go with the giant scarf and get a tailor to adapt the kameez unless its a family heirloom.

That said, I'm a Catholic lurker, so best get some Islamc advice too, as if i get it wrong youll be Blush or you might end up feeding in the loo at short notice Confused

MareeyaDolores · 10/05/2013 22:01

Shame it's not a 'one hall for the ladies' wedding really, would be easier.

Sweetsandchocolate · 10/05/2013 23:03

Thanks Mareeya. Unfortunately I haven't got time (or energy with a newborn lol) to get an outfit for Sunday, and the only lengha I have doesn't fit my post pregnancy shape (sigh). There may be a separate hall for ladies, that's a possibility. If there's not, I'm not sure about being allowed to bf in public areas. I've asked some Muslim friends, they said I shouldn't be going anywhere with such a young baby and should stay at home to rest, so that didn't help me much!

MareeyaDolores · 10/05/2013 23:37

Can you open up the side seams of the kameez? Bit of Velcro, poppers, or even just a co-ordinating vest underneath?

MareeyaDolores · 10/05/2013 23:41

If your mum was Bengali shed have had a big row with mil about 'not looking after you properly' and what will people think of you at any religious event so close to 'first 40 days'.

MareeyaDolores · 10/05/2013 23:45

Can you open up the side seams of the kameez? Bit of Velcro, poppers, or even just a co-ordinating vest underneath?

Bengali breastfeeding helpline. Dont panic, Bilingual staff Grin

crescentmoon · 10/05/2013 23:47

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Sweetsandchocolate · 11/05/2013 00:22

Crescent, that's a good idea, I'll wear a vest, I hadn't thought of that.

Mareeya I have zero tailoring skills. And I live nowhere near Asian clothes shops. I've got an Englsh wedding in a few weeks and I've already bought a maxi dress with an elasticated top part (wearing with cardigan and scarf of course) but so easy to discreetly bf.

My mil passed away couple of years ago, but she'd prob have said for me to bottle feed at the wedding! She loved a good party.

Thanks for your help. I'll let you know how I get on!

nailak · 11/05/2013 02:07

Think if you ate discrete at the back no one will mind,

Sweetsandchocolate · 11/05/2013 11:06

Thanks Nailak. I just phoned the venue, it's on the 2nd floor with a special access only lift and they don't know if its going to be segregated or not. My DH is saying you don't take prams to a wedding, I have to hold baby. I'm getting more stressed by the minute now! I have to sit for 3 or 4 hours holding baby? Really? I think everything's pointing at me not going. Can't use the 40 day thing, as he'll be 42 days lol

nailak · 11/05/2013 12:48

I think people with young kids do take prams or car seats otherwise where would the babies sleep! If it is segregated makes it harder for you as how will you eat and stuff!

MareeyaDolores · 11/05/2013 13:14

Don't take prams? Rubbish! And I say that as a baby-wearing co-sleeping ecological-breastfeeding-for-family-spacing, sling-obsessed nutcase Grin With two others to chase after, having no-where to put a sleeping baby trumps any cultural sensitivity considerations!

This sounds to me like your dh assuming that being a Bengali male makes him an expert on Bengali women and their thought processes. A mistake common to men of all cultures Grin Wink. Ring the helpline, or the mosque local to the wedding, or a handy cousin, and ask them?

MareeyaDolores · 11/05/2013 13:57

crescent, when I was post-natally struggling along with a newborn and two big dc, it was (by and large) the most elderly, traditionally dressed, obviously Muslim gentleman who would hold doors, offer a seat on the bus etc. I think they were horrified at how the UK treats mothers.

MareeyaDolores · 11/05/2013 13:59

actually, come to think of it, maybe one of them will be at the wedding and help OP out Grin

nailak · 12/05/2013 01:48

I sure everyone will be wanting to help out! But sometimes can get too much for baby!

crescentmoon · 12/05/2013 10:59

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LostAndNeverFound · 13/05/2013 06:55

Salaam all, how are you all doing?

Sweets, I hope the wedding went ok, what did you do in the end? Wish I saw this earlier as a couple of Asian ladies I know had a zip tailored in under each boob so all they have to do is unzip and latch baby on very discreetly. I too have a nearly 5 week old breast feeding 2 hourly around the clock! It's tiring but satisfying.

Nailak I haven't seen your thread in aibu but from what crescent said your landlord has given you notice? Same here. We've got under 2 months to find somewhere to live which is virtually impossible as we don't have a deposit big enough for another rented house. The council said they may have to place us in temporary accommodation until they find us a house Sad.

Crescent I just wanted to say thank you again Smile.

I've only read the last page of this thread, I'll catch up on it today hopefully.

Sweetsandchocolate · 13/05/2013 22:02

Salaam all. The wedding went really well. I put my foot down and took the pram, it was brilliant for changing his nappies (and clothes when he pooed all over his little outfits twice!) and meant he had a little kick around when everyone was eating. As for bf, I took a large prayer scarf, went to a chair by a wall and asked for help from relatives to cover me up so I could lift my entire salwar kameez up. Difficult but managed. Helped that the hall was informally segregated. Overall, a success and I had a good time. Thank you for all your support, it really helped Thanks Smile