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Philosophy/religion

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The Muslim Tearoom

999 replies

HardlyEverHoovers · 20/03/2013 15:25

Salaams/peace to all! I'm already missing our old thread, so taking the bull by the horns and opening our very own Muslim Tearoom, all welcome (non-Muslims too of course), to chat, share, ask questions etc etc. Imagine a cosy cafe with floor cushions, tea and coffee of all kinds, and lovely cakes! Please join me!

OP posts:
CoteDAzur · 07/09/2013 00:08

Centuries AD, obviously, and not BC. I'm going to bed Smile

crescentmoon · 07/09/2013 01:55

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crescentmoon · 07/09/2013 02:56

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crescentmoon · 07/09/2013 06:58

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crescentmoon · 07/09/2013 12:07

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peacefuloptimist · 08/09/2013 21:40

Wow just wanted to say I find your analysis of the events in the Middle East to be very insightful Crescent and really reflects the frustration and sense of hypocrisy many people feel.

Cote you say that the secularists want to live in the 21st century and those voting for Islamic parties dont (a complete fabrication but lets go with it for the sake of this argument) but then does that mean you think it is right for secular leaders like Assad to use chemical weapons on their own people? How about Sisi killing hundreds possibly thousands of unarmed protestors as well as arresting political opponents and giving them life sentences whilst releasing Hosni Mubarak? Morsi however backwards and fundamentalist you may regard him didnt shut down the news channels of his opponents, kill protestors or arrest the leaders of the opposition did he? That was the civilised, enlightened liberals many of whom cheered on the army massacre of peaceful protestors. One prominent spokesman of the liberal, secular camp declared that even if we have to kill 100,000 brotherhood supporters we will do it. Are these the kind of people you support? Let me ask you do you think the Egyptians and Tunisians would be better off with Mubarak and Ben Ali both of whom stole billions of dollars from their country? Bette that they be ruled by crooks then religious men? Sorry to go on and on but it really has to be emphasised that what secular liberals like you are supporting in the middle east is injustice, oppression and corruption. You are happy for the majority of the population to be trampled on and suffer as long as the elites (such as yourselves) get your piece of the cake. I have absolutely no respect for these people. If supporting the murder of innocent people and abuse of human rights makes you civilised and modern I'll pass thanks.

With regards to your comment about should they be allowed to change society in to a more segregated one etc. The Muslim brotherhood didnt do that though did they. We will never know what they would have done because they were never able to complete their term in office. Maybe if they had been allowed to complete their term and failed spectacularly it would have killed peoples desire for Islamic parties but instead the secularists fear that there was a chance they could actually be successful and make a good job of it meant they had to overthrow the elected government even though they only had to wait until the end of this year for elections (I think they were scheduled for November) to boot them out using democratic means. Bunch of hypocrites. The beautiful thing about Islam though is the more you try to suppress it the stronger it becomes.

crescentmoon · 09/09/2013 18:04

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crescentmoon · 09/09/2013 19:48

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peacefuloptimist · 11/09/2013 07:58

Salams Sisters

Crescent I really enjoyed your last post. Especially about the bit about the middle eastern dictators being like violent abusive men towards their wives. It really shocks me sometimes how the likes of Gaddafi and Assad are prepared to literally destroy their whole country to maintain their power. It makes you think they must absolutely loathe or have no compassion for their own people. I always thought Assad missed a chance to bow out gracefully when Qatar offered him and his family asylum. He could have stolen his billions and still lived the wealthy lifestyle of a leader and his people would have been spared all this suffering. But these secularist leaders are megalomaniac psychos.

Cote back to your point about segregation and oppression of minorities. Of course we are not supporting that. No one wants a Taliban style government. Having lived as a minority in Europe I deeply feel sad when I see minorities in other countries being oppressed regardless of religion. ALso as a woman of course I dont want a government to enact laws that will be discriminatory towards me. However why is there an assumption that an Islamic government will do that? The problem is that you are so brainwashed in the West to believe that Islam is a religion that is intolerant towards minorities and oppressive to women so you automatically assume thats whats going to happen. Saudi and Iran are just two countries in the Muslim world. Why do you take them as examples of what Islam produces and not somewhere like Qatar or Malaysia? You could say that a lot of oppression towards these groups goes on in Muslims countries and I would agree. However it doesn't occur exclusively in Muslim countries. Other countries have discriminatory practices towards women. Take for example India that has been in the news lately. As for minorities being oppressed what about the muslim minorities in countries such as Burma, Sri Lanka and Ethiopia who are being subjected to terrible crimes and oppression. Hardly a peep in the media and certainly no accusations of Buddhism and Christianity being religions that oppress minorities (instead there is almost an attitude of these muslims deserve it even though they are peaceful minorities because of the actions of their brethren). Neither has Hinduism been blamed for the plight of women in India.

However Islam is regularly blamed by the West for the oppressive actions of Muslims towards minorities and women even when Muslims are acting in complete contradiction to what our religion actually teaches us. Take for example just this one hadith.

“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)

Also look to the actions of the first caliph of Islam, Abu Bakr who in a letter to christian subjects in a land the muslims had conquered called Najran, outlines their rights.

‘In the Name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful. This is the written statement of God’s slave Abu Bakr, the successor of Muhammad,
the Prophet and Messenger of God. He affirms for you the rights of a protected neighbor, in yourselves, your lands, your religious community, your wealth, retainers, and servants, those of you who are present or abroad, your bishops and monks, and monasteries, and all that you own, be it great or small. You shall not be deprived of any of it, and shall have full control over it…’

Does that sound like a religion that encourages oppression of minorities? There are many more examples I could find if I had more time. In fact this accusation of intolerance is only a recent thing anyway. The British historian, H.G. Wells, wrote the following about Muslim societies: ‘They established great traditions of just tolerance. They inspire people with a spirit of generosity and tolerance, and are humanitarian and practical. They created a humane community in which it was rare to see cruelty and social injustice, unlike any community that came before it.’

How can that be denied when centuries before the West you find Bayt Al Hikmah (the House of Wisdom) was established in Baghdad in the 9th century where christians, jews and muslims would work together to translate works of famous Greek and Roman philosophers such as Aristotle and worked together to advance on their knowledge. Or in your native Turkey we find that they gave asylum to 150,000 Spanish Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition to go and live under the Muslim rule of the Ottoman Empire. During the Classical Ottoman period (1300–1600), the Jews, together with most other communities of the empire, enjoyed a certain level of prosperity. Compared with other Ottoman subjects, jews were the predominant power in commerce and trade as well in diplomacy and other high office. Mehmed II's minister of Finance, his physician and Murad II physician were all jews. Abraham de Castro, the master of the mint in Egypt was also a jew. Did any muslims or jews hold any similar positions under European rule in that time period (or I would say with regards to Muslims in Europe today).

I dont have time to mention how when Islam was established that one of its greatest achievements was to improve the situation of women in the Middle East and one of the major reasons why he was opposed was because the Prophet Muhammed PBUH fought for the rights of women. However Im sure its been touched on before.

I dont really want to keep banging on and on with regards to this topic but the final thing I want to say is that there is a verse in the Quran that always comes to my mind when I watch the news and see what is going on in the news.

"Truth stands out clear from error" Holy Quran; Chapter 2, verse 256.

peacefuloptimist · 11/09/2013 08:10

By the way Crescent I am still breastfeeding but desperate to stop. Did any sisters manage to breastfeed for the full two years? My ds's razor sharp teeth are putting the fear of God in to me every time I feed him. I like the sound of those names too Crescent and can understand the approach you want to take. However for me I think that its more important to give your child a beautiful name that has a meaning behind it whether it connects them up to a famous Muslim personality or that it has a strong meaning to it. So I always prefer prophetic names for boys (I also think the sound beautiful) and would much rather call my son Muhammed (even though there are a million of them) then Dean just because I want him to feel proud that his name associates him with such an amazing and loved person. Similarly I prefer something like Aisha (which is common as muck Grin) over something like Yasmin for the same reason. Please dont call your child Jenna for the opposite reason I have given above. It has a lot of negative connotations to it because of the personality attached to it. Confused

peacefuloptimist · 11/09/2013 08:31

I wouldn't advise naming your daughter Jannah either. Might be too much for her to live up to Grin. To any non-Arabic speakers on the thread. It would be the equivalent of calling your daughter Heaven or Paradise.

crescentmoon · 11/09/2013 14:59

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LostAtTheEndOfTheRainbow · 11/09/2013 21:24

Salaam sisters

How are you all? Well I hope.

Wow this thread has moved fast, I haven't been on for a long time. I don't know where the time is going!

Crescent I always find your threads so insightful, you come across as being very knowledgeable in all aspects of our religion and politics as it were. I'll be honest, things like what you have been discussing recently go completely over my head. I wish I could understand what is going on in Syria and Egypt etc, but I really don't understand it at all! I wish I was as passionate as you about these things.

Now babies and baby names I can do Grin.

Have you got a short list of names yet? It's such a responsibility isn't it. Personally I like names like you have on your list, they're my kind of names. For my husband though it's all about the meaning. He poo pooed all of my nice sounding ones because he didnt like the meaning of them.

Laila/Layla and Rayyan/Ryan are other ones. My dd2 is on the list spelt the english way Grin. She's most definitely not Jenna though!

Peaceful please don't beat yourself up about the breastfeeding, you have done amazingly to get this far you should be proud of yourself. You need to do what's best for you, like crescent pointed out '... a mother should not be made to suffer because of her child...'. Sorry I hope that doesn't sound patronising Hmm.

What's your take on reverts giving themselves Islamic names? Do any reverts on here have a 'known as' name?

I can't open that link on my phone for some reason crescent, sounds intriguing though.

crescentmoon · 12/09/2013 15:04

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crescentmoon · 12/09/2013 16:50

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LostAtTheEndOfTheRainbow · 12/09/2013 21:00

But you have to know what your talking about to be able to post on such topics, it's like a foreign language to me!

I really wish I could enjoy reading about history, I've got so much I want to learn and one day I will inshallah. That's lovely you and your dad can share that together.

With regards to you wanting to go to your mums for 40 days after the birth, I think that's a wonderful idea. I mentioned that to my husband and he looked at me like I was mad! Would it work logistically for your husband to look after your other DC and take them to school etc? I was back on the school run when DS was 3 days old, I wish I didn't have to do that to be honest. Good luck sorting that put, Allah swt will guide you.

I'm afraid I'm with your husband on the name Rayyan! My boy bump was called that in my head right from the beginning when I was first looking at names until my father in law passed away and his actual name was decided then. I love the name, maybe next time!

Haha, yes I knew the reference was a Quranic verse, I just used my words incorrectly and it looked like I was saying you had actually quoted it, when I meant you had highlighted it!

As for me... my children are lovely, although we're having a terrible time with dd2 at the moment biting, kicking, pinching, screeching and screaming etc, that we're at bit of a loss with her. She's just so naughty, she blocks toilets, empties out creams and smears them on the walls, empties her clothes drawers onto the floor every single night. I could go on! She's 3 and started preschool this week so we'll see if this sorts her out! My lovely ds is the light of my life, he's just such a happy little thing. Me and dh are struggling to get back on track, he's been making such an effort, he's actually been amazing recently. But I'm struggling to forgive his wrongdoings if I'm honest. We're finally moving house this weekend, our lives have been in limbo over moving for four months now, it's nice to have an end in sight so we can settle down a bit. This may also be contributing to dd2's behaviour.

I haven't taken on an Islamic name, I can't find any text anywhere that says you have to. My husband and inlaws would like me to, but I feel quite strongly about this. My parents gave me this name and they would be heartbroken if they knew I wanted to change it or had a 'known as' name. Same goes with dd1, my inlaws are pushing for me to give her another name. But she is 'dd1' and I couldn't imagine calling her something else. I'll be happy for her to make her own decision when she's 16 though.

crescentmoon · 13/09/2013 14:14

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FoziaS · 14/09/2013 17:59

Asalaam Alaikum!

New here and just wanted to say hello. 'waves'

peacefuloptimist · 16/09/2013 12:23

Wa alaykumu salam FoziaS

Welcome! Are you new to mumsnet or just to this thread. It used to be a lot busier here I dont know where everyone has gone.

Glad to know you and your girls are well Lost. I can imagine how stressful it must be to be moving with a new baby. I moved whilst pregnant and that was hard enough. I havent decided yet about the breastfeeding. Ds is so comforted by it but at the same time I am dreading feeding him these days which Im sure is not great for y milk supply either.

Its good that you havent changed your name. Dont feel any pressure to. I know many revert sisters who have chosen to keep their names and I think thats right if the person chooses it. One of the reasons I think people change their names is so that they blend in because its much easier to spot a revert if their name is Katie then if its Khadijah. I have two school friends who reverted and despite them both changing their names I cant help referring to them by their original names. I wonder how that makes reverts feel. I havent asked them but I hope that doesnt offend them.

Thanks Crescent for the quote I will have it at the ready if anyone challenges my decision to stop breastfeeding. Its not like anyone I know has done the full two years but my husband really wants me to continue and it would be good to get him off my back.

What do people think of Yasmin Mogahed. Have you heard her talks? She is a speaker from America who is becoming increasingly popular. There has been a bit of controversy about her as she posts videos of her talks on youtube and gives lectures to mixed gender audiences. She is relatively young and very pretty too. What are peoples opinions on this topic and have you ever attended an Islamic talk in which a woman spoke in front of a mixed audience?

Love you all for the sake of Allah

LittleTulip · 17/09/2013 00:25

Salaam ladies.

Just a quick hello from me. I have recently posted on the bereavement thread.. I have name changed since (was Sleepathon). Basically my baby boy Ibrahim was stillborn at 25 weeks..

It has now been three weeks. It has been tough but of course my faith has kept me going.

You ladies seem very knowledgable and so any hints, tips, guidance on coping strategies spiritually and religiously are needed.

Hope this is not the wrong thread to be asking this! Have been lurking for a wee while now

Smile
peacefuloptimist · 17/09/2013 09:36

Salamalaykum LittleTulip

Im so sorry to hear about your loss.

'Inna lillah wa inna ilaihi rajiun'

I pray Allah SWT reunites you and your family with your little one in the highest jannah and gives you the strength to deal with your bereavement. Ameen.

I dont have much experience with dealing with death of a loved one and cant imagine how much harder it must be to lose a child. However there is a project started recently called Children of Jannah which provides lots of support and advice to parents who have lost a child. There is a free ebook on the link before for mothers in particular on how to find peace after the pain of losing a child.

www.childrenofjannah.com/

They also have videos on youtube from lots of scholars giving advice in particular to parents. Inshallah I hope that helps sis. I didnt want to read and run but inshallah I will be back to give more resources if I find anything beneficial.

May Allah bestow His Mercy and Forgiveness on your family. Ameen

crescentmoon · 18/09/2013 01:21

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crescentmoon · 18/09/2013 08:02

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fuzzywuzzy · 18/09/2013 15:08

Just want to mark my place on the thread again.

I love Surah Duha, I recite it often during salat especially when I feel very alone.
Surah Duha was revealed after the death of Kahdeeja (RA) and came after a long period of time. I try and follow the sintructions in it as well and when especially struck by sorrow try and give in alms as much as possible.

fuzzywuzzy · 18/09/2013 15:15

Also, if anyone feels like giving to charity here's a suggestion.

They were raising I think $10k for Ramadan and then have extended it to $30k by the end of September, so far the estimate is 1109 people will benefit from clean water.

It's sadqah jariayh, the charity that will continue to benefit for a long time, hopefully long long after we pass away.