insulting religions

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

Hi, I've never posted on this topic before, I tend to hang out in aibu, but don't want to start a bun fight!

So, I am a liberal Christian. I firmly believe that everyone had to right to believe (or not) whatever they want, provided that belief doesn't hurt anyone else.

Earlier today I posted a lighthearted status on Facebook, which had led to me being called mindless, stupid, stuck up, thinking I'm better than everyone else. I've been told God is a c**t (sorry I hate that word so much I won't type it) and that the Bible is only God for loo roll!

I'm just really angry that people think its ok to insult me/my religion like that, when I haven't once preached or insulted others.

Obviously the easy solution would be to delete them off of Facebook, but they are people I get on with other wise.

Don't really know the point of my post, just hoping id feel better writing it down.

So it's just a matter of believing that he exists. As James says: You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

The vast, vast, vast, vast majority of Christians throughout history would not recognise the description of Yahweh and "loving & just". The Bible does not support that view in the slightest - it's only by looking through the rose tinted specs of the last, enlightened century that Christians today can ignore 95% of what the Bible actually says and just concentrate on the few "gentle Jesus" bits.

Mark 16:16

Doesn't mention Hell, but "condemned" doesn't sound like a particularly positive thing.

Jesus also made it clear that the only way to Heaven was through him - it's not hard to read between the lines.

In some ways I think you're right, Ellie, about Christians narrowing things down to the 'gentle Jesus' thing. I reckon there's not a whole lot of point in thinking that this would be life changing - as many of you correctly observe, many people are good and live caring and loving lifestyles. If the gospel is narrowed down to being a bit nice and meek and all there is not a lot of message in there to make it stand out in any way.

The problem may lie in people thinking that if we water it down enough it might be more acceptable, palatable if you like, so yes, the more difficult parts may be ignored in favour of the good bits. I think this is something that we as Christians need to take seriously and engage with. I think many of us do, but I know that I am as guilty as anyone else of compromising so I don't look too daft

Thing is, there are valid exegetical and hermeneutical readings of scripture which do help us to form a more 21st century view of things. Women, slavery etc etc, and these do not water down scripture but merely engage with them in an intelligent manner. No point in simply saying that we should take every word of the Bible as written, who could live by that, and what relevance would much of, say, Leviticus, have on living in our society now?

I do disagree though that it's only in say the last century that we've come to this view of God as loving and just and full of mercy. There are countless examples throughout history of people acting in accordance with this being the character of the God they worshipped. Wilberforce, Carmichael. It's difficult to see it in the dark ages and the crusades, it must be admitted! But I don't think it's true either that most Christians practise a kind of cognitive dissonance that ignores '95%' of how the Bible describes God. I think instead a lot of people use their intelligence and reason to form a picture of God based on the entirety of scripture.

People and Christians have tried to water down the bible.
I think partly, in the hope that it would be more palatable.
But the bible is the bible.
Beginning, middle and end.
We have ended up with less Christians, not more.

Throughout the bible, believers were told to be bold, I [meaning God] am with you.

Jesus was sent, because of the reasons that MadHairDay quoted from Amos.
So no, we dont have to do the stuff from Leviticus.

MadHairDay and I probably disagree on some of the stuff I have just written.

Christianity is the fastest growing religion according to latest statistics.

Really? Yeah!
Not in the UK though I would have thought.

Pretty much agree, actually, amillion

I don't take the bible literally in all senses, as you know, but absolutely believe it is the word of God in its' entirety. There's a difference between literal and inspired.

I don't know about the UK, but I was reading an article about the fact that despite 253 churches (or something like that) had closed down in the last ten??? years, 1,000 new churches have been planted. And that despite the fact that less percentage of people self identify as Christians in a national statistics sense there was actually huge growth in many churches. The reason the percentage is down is that people are more cognizant of the fact that being christened doesn't necessarily make them Christian, and are thus more honest. I'd be interested to see some exact figures.

But yes, the church in some places, eg China, South America is growing hugely every day.

Sciencelover - exactly my thoughts re Jesus and his claim that people only come to God through him :)

Posting just so I can be post no. 666

Dandydan -(hi!)

So do you believe that god has intervened just the once (I.e. with Jesus) and never before that and never since?

I makes me wonder why Jesus didn't say that? Why did he play along with being the son of an interventionist (and not very nice) god if all of that was just a set of myths?

I was an early internet adopter - the ISP was called demon internet and the dial in number ended 666. Some people wouldn't use them!

The Jews (some, not all) adopted the idea of Heaven and Hell from the Zoroastrians while in exile in Babylon.

Scripture is inspired by God.
And the people in OT times were supposed to do all the laws to the letter.

I remember mail@demon Grimma!

Reminds me of that dial up connecting to server noise that went on forever and not being able to use the internet when someone was on the phone!

Well, if nothing else, the last few pages of this thread reinforce the point that the imaginary friends people invent reflect their personalities. What believers inevitably end up describing is something which is on a scale somewhere between a well-meaning but fairly ineffective clumsy twit and a psychopath. Great Bumhole can maybe cure one child's cancer, but it's sort of forgotten to cure the rest, and maybe it only invented cancer when it spilled its celestial pint on its notebook halfway through inventing butterflies or pro-biactive yoghurt or something. Either that or Great Bumhole wants your attention so it will kill one or more of your friends and neighbours, or have you reduced, by an unlikely wood-chipper accident, to a head in a bucket just so you'll say a prayer.

Neither of these options sounds like anything I'd fancy giving headspace to. So it's just as well that they are delusions, really.

Christianity is the fasting growing religion, that's true - but atheism is the fastest growing group. Religion is not exactly in it's death throws, but it's starting to cough delicately into it's hanky and, as Mark Kermode says, we all know what that means.

And Solid is right actually. People do believe in a God that reflects their personalities. Psychos believe in a god that kills people for them while well-meaning people believe in a god that just wants the best for everyone.

First question of the day: I keep hearing of Jesus's great sacrifice. What sacrifice is that exactly? He gave up his life for us? No he didn't - he's the "living lord" sitting upstairs in Heaven as we speak. If he died for our sins, why is he still alive?

A sacrifice is when you give up something permanently & irrevocably - Jesus shed a body he didn't need or probably particularly want. Given that he was God in some form or another, the choice to get on the cross was his, he could have gotten off at any particular moment.

And what was he trying to achieve? He wanted to atone in advance for any sin we might commit so that we'd still be able to go to Heaven? A loophole in other words. Aside from the fact that no one can atone for anyone else's sin - it's meaningless unless the sinner themselves genuinely atones - his great gesture has utterly failed. People still go to hell.

This is supposedly a being so astoundingly intelligent that he created quantum mechanics - he designed each atom, created each cell, put together all the laws of physics, devised that beautiful piece of logic that is natural selection and yet, the best plan he could think of to forgive us all for sin that a) he knew we'd commit because b) he planned we would all along was to have himself sacrificed to himself in the most bloody & revolting way possible. Seventh (?) Commandment - Thou Shalt Not Kill...except when I want you to kill me so I can forgive you for things like, er, killing people.

It makes no sense. Really. And we have a name for things that make no sense - it's nonsense.

The Jews (some, not all) adopted the idea of Heaven and Hell from the Zoroastrians while in exile in Babylon That's interesting. I'm not saying that Jesus invented the concept - probably most cultures had some version of it, but Yahweh doesn't seem to have been particularly interested in sending people there (or at least he failed to mention it) until Number One son showed up.

Ellie, if Christianity is the fastest growing religion, by definition, it is not dying.
Lots of other questions there. I shall come back to them.

SolidGold, you are calling God "Great B......"
I really have to say that you can get into very big trouble with God for doing that.