insulting religions

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

Hi, I've never posted on this topic before, I tend to hang out in aibu, but don't want to start a bun fight!

So, I am a liberal Christian. I firmly believe that everyone had to right to believe (or not) whatever they want, provided that belief doesn't hurt anyone else.

Earlier today I posted a lighthearted status on Facebook, which had led to me being called mindless, stupid, stuck up, thinking I'm better than everyone else. I've been told God is a c**t (sorry I hate that word so much I won't type it) and that the Bible is only God for loo roll!

I'm just really angry that people think its ok to insult me/my religion like that, when I haven't once preached or insulted others.

Obviously the easy solution would be to delete them off of Facebook, but they are people I get on with other wise.

Don't really know the point of my post, just hoping id feel better writing it down.

madhair according to your same reasoning wrt to the OT violence Jimmy Saville's fund raising cancels out the child abuse.

Crescent - the four Gospels aren't very long and Matthew, Mark and Luke have quite a lot of overlap. I think if you read say Luke and John in a readable but not dumbed-down version (eg NIV) that'd be more satisfactory to you than being guided to individual verses out of context.

Mad - that's a great quote from Amos... mostly honoured in the breach by the average churchgoer, it seems too often. Chimes with the instructions from Jesus on how to pray, I think.

cresecent, Matthew 5-7 is quite a good place to start. Jesus was certainly not simply a turn-the-other-cheek and let people walk over you type. There is incredible strength in his actions, eg in his bawling out the pharisees over their hypocrisy and lack of compassion and at the traders in the temple etc. The thing is, I cannot separate who he was, his sayings, his deeds from the cross, I believe that it is the strength and mystery of the cross that completes what he is and that has had so many echoes throughout history. Otherwise, he was just a good bloke who got cross with people and lied about himself. Would someone like that have had such far reaching influence?

Grimma - yep. There is still too much 'look at me and what I am doing good' and not enough actual doing good. But there's a lot of great things being done as well.

headinhands - goodness, no. I was probably a bit unclear (often am at the moment) but I was trying to point out that there is much in the OT to suggest a God of mercy and compassion and that should be considered as much as the nasty stuff. Not at all that the nasty stuff is cancelled out, but that it is considered contextually as much as the stuff surrounding it. I'm not saying 'Oh, God said he hates child sacrifice therefore it's ok if he kills the odd baby', more that I'm trying to reconcile the God who said the first with accounts of the second (think there is one, in a wartime narrative) and piece together what that means, who said it, what to take from it, etc. I know...not a storming argument. It's not clear cut.

but would reading them explain the circumstances around Jesus at the time?

Probably not but I'm not sure how much is necessary (especially in the age of Google ). I would guess many people don't know much beyond 'the region was under Roman rule and the Pharisees and Saducees were some sort of Jewish religious groups'.

In the copy I've got those two books are only about 60 pages together

Mark is probably the shortest, crescent. If you want to read around the culture, context etc of it there is plenty online. The best series I've come across for this is the Tom Wright For Everyone series - it takes the book of the bible and goes through it, explaining context, background, culture and applying it to today. Mark For Everyone - it also contains the text so you don't need a bible as such. :)

God is not us. We are not God.
Yes, it is very helpful to think of God in terms of being our Father. He is our Heavenly Father. But He is so so much more.

I can think of a personal example to me of where I think God is punishing someone, but I cant think or dont know of any other examples, headinhands.

I have found that talking to my children and reasoning with them is very effective at showing them how what I ask them to do is generally for their own good. I have sometimes removed privileges when necessary but have never caused them injury or illness in order to get them to do what I want. Neither have I killed one of them to show the other one how serious I am about them listening to me.

When you say 'god is not us' etc what point are you making? I am not you and you are not me but that doesn't mean I am completely unable to look at your behaviour and make judgements on your choices. Are you saying that because god is not human we cannot and should not try to understand him? But you're the one saying you do understand him, not me.

I don't think God punishes anyone. I don't think God intervenes. I believe the whole of creation has freewill and so there will be situations which are (to us) less than ideal - painful situations of many different kinds.

But I do think there is God within and through and beyond the reality in which our universe and our lives are set, a God revealed fully in the person of Jesus.

headinhands.Yes we should try and understand Him.
But we cannot and never will understand Him fully, at least not while we are on earth.

You were on a thread with me at the end of Spetember, and we came to the same point as now.
I think you know already what is in the bible. And dont like the answers.
I can only pray that you seek God,and eventually bow down to him before you die.

I never understand the analogy Christians try to make between God & parenting. If I told my son I would lock him in a burning basement FOREVER for not loving me enough, how quickly would social services be on my doorstep?

Using threats is not good parenting, so why is it seen so with God?

And why is he so desperate to be "loved"? This seems to be virtually the only "unforgivable" sin. You can be a mass murderer, but so long as you say sorry and mean it, then you can have a ticket into the golden city. But don't believe but lead an otherwise blameless life - to hell with you!

And, no, I won't accept, "But that's not what we Christians believe any more!" Well, why don't you? That's what your Bible says - and it was Jesus himself who introduced the idea of hell.

And "God is not us" - no, but we were apparently made in his image & get our morals from him. Not really much of a role model, is he?

And Jesus isn't much of a role model either. If you actually read what he was supposed to have said and try to apply it to your life you'd find yourself in trouble very quickly.

Think how differently it might have turned out if the first thing he'd made was MN so he could then find out how to do it properly.

Would God be putting me on the naughty step, Grimma?.

Or taking my Xbox away from me - like he's the boss of me or something!!!

Ha

If God invented MN. Now there's a thread idea

Ellie, I am guilty as charged of making analogies between God and parenting. But that's because I think God is a loving parent, doesn't make threats and does forgive - just as we would our child.

I believe that loving God releases us to be everything we were meant to be and gives intrinsic freedom, so the whole thing of God 'needing to be loved' doesn't ever occur to me too much, as in my experience worship is incredibly liberating for me, not just stroking God's ego

The hell thing...well yeah. I think we've done several threads on that one I'll say what I usually say; I believe God is just, I believe God is loving. These things do not equate with a God who would send someone into eternal fire even though they were lovely because they did not believe in God. We could go into the whole what does Jesus mean by hell, where does the whole fiery pit thingy come from. but I need a nap before the dc get in

Dandy, your non interventionalist god who gives us free will is ticketyboo until you got to the bit about what god you were referring to. This 'hands off' god who lets us do what we want just isn't supported by scripture I'm afraid.

Thanks amillion. And maybe you'll discover Allah and humble yourself before him before you die while there's still time. It's never too late to discover the one true god. He's waiting for you...

So is there no hell science? Do we all go to heaven or do some of us get snuffed out?

headinhands, you believe that a God who lets us do what we want isn't supported by scripture. I believe that it is.

I'll gladly second whoever proposed reading Francis Spufford's Unapologetic though. A very good book indeed, as are his other books.

If you really want to get into it, you could even technically say most people "believe" somewhat, if they give even the smallest percent chance of God existing

No. Not true - not even technically.

There's no part of me that believes the Easter Bunny might be real. But I must recognise that, not having been everywhere in the universe & not being omniscient I cannot know this with 100% certainty. On the same basis, there's almost nothing I can know with 100% certainty.

But belief is an active thing, it's not an accidental thing. There's not a single part of me that believes in God. I don't know he doesn't exist, but I am sufficiently certain that he doesn't that it reaches a place akin to knowledge in my head. Same with Santa, the Easter Bunny & so forth.

In all the ways that count, I know there is no god. Same as you all "know" that there's no Tooth Fairy.

Oh - and if Jesus was explicit about anything, it was about Hell and who would end up there.

Atheists are not just people who find it "difficult to believe".

Science, this god who takes all things into account is something you have constructed through your own sense of logic and morals, not through scripture. You have brought your own intellect to bear, which is great, but leaves you having to acknowledge that if it happens the way the bible suggests then it is immoral, which is why you've done a lot of tweaking.