insulting religions

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

Hi, I've never posted on this topic before, I tend to hang out in aibu, but don't want to start a bun fight!

So, I am a liberal Christian. I firmly believe that everyone had to right to believe (or not) whatever they want, provided that belief doesn't hurt anyone else.

Earlier today I posted a lighthearted status on Facebook, which had led to me being called mindless, stupid, stuck up, thinking I'm better than everyone else. I've been told God is a c**t (sorry I hate that word so much I won't type it) and that the Bible is only God for loo roll!

I'm just really angry that people think its ok to insult me/my religion like that, when I haven't once preached or insulted others.

Obviously the easy solution would be to delete them off of Facebook, but they are people I get on with other wise.

Don't really know the point of my post, just hoping id feel better writing it down.

If a person is a Christian, then they are expected to ask for healing. They can ask at whatever level they want. God is available night and day. And he is never too busy.

Non Christians. This is the bit I realise there is a gap in my knowledge. If a Christian is praying for them, then God is then aware.
The bit I realise I dont know, is that if God is not told, does he know?

For instance, animals were not supposed to eat other animals.

But there's fossil evidence that they were doing it millions of years before man existed. There wasn't some sudden step-change when carnivores grew canine teeth etc at around the time that mankind appeared.

Genesis is a metaphorical attempt at an explanation but its one of those religious catch-22s - it only works at all if you believe.

I think you may know me well enough now to know I am going to say that I believe in Genesis as it stands.And the rest of the bible too.
Agreed there are tiny pieces that have lost a few words here and there,so a few verses struggle to make sense. But apart from that, I dont have any trouble believing it all.

Sin entered. The Devil entered

Why didn't God just get rid of these there and then? Is the Devil as strong as God....stronger? If God's a supreme being, omnipotent and all the other omnis, then there can be no "struggle" between good and evil - the omnipotent one is going to win every single time. Not much of a stuggle.

So, God has chosen to have the Devil muck up his creation and cause suffering that was never intended. Why? And doesn't it violate his benevolence if he chooses to tolerate, for any reason, sin and evil like that?

And how do you know how many miracles there used to be, Amillion? The Bible doesn't really talk about that many - and most of the ones it does list are fairly unpleasant instances of god getting angry at people (plagues of locusts etc). So, if the Bible doesn't talk about there being loads & there's certainly no mention of them extra-Biblically, then how do you know?

Oh - and I'll also throw this into the point. If God is omniscient, then nothing that ever happens could ever be described as "unintended". There can never have been a time when God did not know that all these "unintended" things would indeed happen.

In the pot, not point.

Ellie if you were God ( i.e. omnipotent but also loving and just) and one of his children prayed a prayer like that to you, just exactly what do you think your reaction would be?

No, I'm going to get very, very serious for a mo, because this thread has got me thinking about why I am a Christian, and why I should stay one:

I believe that God allowed an innocent and very lovely young lad to be killed , to bring me to my senses about what I was thinking and saying at that point in my life.

From Douglas Hall's behaviour in school, I would have said he was a Christian; from the culture he lived in I would say his family was, too. That might possibly have enabled them to cope better with the loss.

So far as his physical suffering was concerned:

What happened, as I understand it, was that during an after-school football match he accidentally knocked over a fellow schoolboy.

The offended boy got up, pulled a flick-knife, and stabbed Douglas. It was probably an 'accident' that the knife penetrated Douglas heart. He would I suppose have died instantly, with minimal pain or suffering.

So I treat my faith as solemnly as any parent might after losing a child in tragic circumstances; many such then devote their lives to campaigning against the defect in society which caused the death.

I'm thinking for instance of the lady whose cyclist daughter was crushed by a cement mixer turning left, but there are many others.

That's why I gulped when you asked for evidence ......

< .... and in paragraphs , as well! >

God is the strongest.
I used to ask myself the same question, why doesnt or hasnt God got rid of the evil one yet.
And the answer is rather strange.
The answer is that he is waiting "until the full number of the Gentiles has come in". Romans chpt 11

God is doing things in a certain order.

And there is constantly a huge struggle going on in Heaven.

God most certainly did not want the Devil to muck things up.
The Devil is an angel that went wrong, or rogue.
[and if you are going to ask me how that happened, I am afraid I havent a clue]

I would have to disagree with you about how many miracles are mentioned in the bible.

I am not sure about the all seeing bit. I used to think yes, then no then yes, and I am currently on no I think!

Matthew 11. Whole chapter is relevant.

(But from time to time vv 16-17 seem to characterise this thread).

Gone for an early (-ish) night.

Avuncular - I feel sick. You actually believe your god killed a child so your faith could be stronger. Fuck that. Seriously. How twisted is your thinking?

It's bad enough that your god beats you with the guilt stick and fear - "be good or suffer for eternity. Be good, because I was tortured. Choose whatever life you want but unless you choose what I tell you to, you'll suffer for eternity."

All that is quite worrying enough, and why I want nothing to do with the Christian god.

But to actually think you, yes, you, are sooooooooooooooooooooo important to an infinite being that he would kill a child for you, and then leave you with the guilt of it - "be good, I killed a child for you."

Supremely arrogant and supremely sick.

Avuncular that is one of the most disturbing things I have read on here for quite a while. God arranged for a child to be killed and for that child's family to be thrown into the most horrendous unending nightmare, to make a point to you about believing in him? And you're ok with that?

Anyone, human or god, that would commit such an awful crime wouldn't deserve praise, they would deserve contempt.

Avuncular I can only echo what Annie & Snorbs have said. Your post is nothing short of obscene.

I am happy to continue talking to Mad & Amillion, if they want to - but my conversation with you is over, Avuncular.

WTAF?

Avuncular, I've agreed with a lot of what you've said and we've had a good conversation, but have to agree with Annie and Snorbs too.

That's not the God I know.

The bible says God is not willing that any should perish.

I do not believe God would kill a child to make a point. No, it goes against everything that Jesus was about, and I believe the full revelation of who God is is in Jesus. Jesus was far more interested in caring for the poor and oppressed than anything else, and so should his followers. I can't see where this 'smiting' God comes into it. You could argue from Job, I guess, but there are far better interpretations.

I think that child died because of the actions of another person. A tragic, horrendous occurrence. Not the actions of God.

But I guess this shows we all have our differences, even sharing the same faith :)

But when people cry 'oh no, god's not like that' I can't help but think about the OT. The god of the OT wouldn't think twice about having a young lad killed. He was quite happy to order his followers to slice babies to death in front of their families. He was quite happy to sit and watch the population of earth drown and you don't think he would kill someone?

I've lurked throughout this thread. Any comment I've wanted to make has been made before I could post it (and far more eloquently). But I couldn't let this pass without comment.
If you truly believe this Avuncular (and I think you do) why do you think god values you to such a degree that this poor boy was dispensable for your benefit (not to mention his good christian parent's devastation, the parents of the boy who killed him's heartbreak and , of course, it begs the question are we talking about a predestination type thing here. Was the murderer predestined to commit this awful crime, just to bolster your faith?

Wow, that's some god you've got there!
(Now beginning to wonder if your joke about Ellie's toothache was a joke after all. I think you may actually believe it. Terrifying!)

Morning Mad But it doesn't concern you that anyone at all would look at the death of a child and think, "God did that for me" - and then try and offer it as evidence that God exists?

I've spoken to lots and lots of Christians - and that's a new one on me. It's horrible.

Sun I was wondering the same thing, to be honest (about my toothache).

crescentmoon, a reading of the gospels brings that side of Jesus out more than anything. There are also parts of the OT that refer to God being much more interested in people's hearts towards the poor than, say, their empty sacrifices - eg this from Amos (TNIV)

21 ?I hate, I despise your religious festivals;
I cannot stand your assemblies.
22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
I will have no regard for them.
23 Away with the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.
24 But let justice roll on like a river,
righteousness like a never-failing stream!

In fact, this 'side' of God is referred to more often in the OT than the whole smiting, bloodthirsty God. I find it as difficult as anyone else, and totally see your point, headinhands. How can I reconcile this?

You may say it is evident God was happy to see babies sliced up. But then in another part it makes it clear God is disgusted by the prevalence of child sacrifice in the cultures surrounding Israel and Judah, telling them not to touch such ways of life. You can't refer to one without realising there are just as much, if not more, references to the justice and overarching compassion of God.

That's the side I see come out in Jesus, and it's evident that that's how he identifies himself. If Jesus is God, then what is God like? That's how I reconcile it. If I believed every word of the OT I would not be wearing this top I am wearing with mixed fibres. I'd not be doing an awful lot of things I cannot look at it and take some parts out and say 'God is horrible because of....'

Jesus is what makes the whole difference, to me.

Morning, Ellie. :) Yes, it does concern me, a lot. I don't know how to describe how something like this makes me feel. :(

Hope the toothache is easing.

MadHairDay well said

headinhands Yes God punished. But He is slow to anger. Very slow. And gave and gives people many chances. But ultimately, yes he will kill if He thinks it necessary [not at all meaning the boy that Avuncular talked about]

crescentmoon The 4 gospels, Matthew, Mark Luke and John are the books in the bible for that.
As has been mentioned upthread, Jesus was very anti the Pharisees and the establishment of the time.

Avun so this mega intelligent being couldn't think of a better way to communicate with you other than having someone stabbed to death? If you were concerned about the things your wife was saying would you ever think someone being stabbed was a good way of communicating with her? How about talking to her and using logical discourse to sort the problem out?

I fully expect that's what's happened here is another example of 'just world' reasoning. Your mind created a back story that allowed you to still feel that there are rules about life. Rules hat allow you to feel safe and that there's some sort if order to the things that happen. It's something we all do to one degree or another.

The upshot is, having someone killed to make you acknowledge them is pretty much the text book definition of terrorism.

Yes, it's a bit better. Thanks :)

I just didn't want you to think you had to try and justify anything that he's said. We all know that that's not the way sane Christians think so please don't worry that he's casting a shadow over you, Amillion or any lurking Christians.

So amillion this slow to anger thing. How long shall I leave it before drowning my kids when they don't listen to me? How quick is too quick? Can you think of an example of god punishing people now?