insulting religions

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

Hi, I've never posted on this topic before, I tend to hang out in aibu, but don't want to start a bun fight!

So, I am a liberal Christian. I firmly believe that everyone had to right to believe (or not) whatever they want, provided that belief doesn't hurt anyone else.

Earlier today I posted a lighthearted status on Facebook, which had led to me being called mindless, stupid, stuck up, thinking I'm better than everyone else. I've been told God is a c**t (sorry I hate that word so much I won't type it) and that the Bible is only God for loo roll!

I'm just really angry that people think its ok to insult me/my religion like that, when I haven't once preached or insulted others.

Obviously the easy solution would be to delete them off of Facebook, but they are people I get on with other wise.

Don't really know the point of my post, just hoping id feel better writing it down.

Had to have a think about whether Christians in this country are still privileged. I suppose they are, but not sure I can personally think of any concrete examples

In some areas, if you're looking at school admissions or applying for primary teaching jobs its concrete enough. Its probably human nature to be more aware of privileges that you don't have rather than those you do.

Snorbs - ethel said 'one of the reasons' - I think both your reasons apply. Plus simple familiarity. Eg there was a thread recently - lighthearted, but it could have lead to offence -- on 'Biblical MN' - which would be unlikely to happen for any other scripture because only a small proportion of us have the necessary knowledge.

Once upon a time I was the 'church nominee' Governor for a CofE primary school. We had people queuing up to get their children in - people of other faiths and none - though there were plenty of places available in other 'secular' schools. I have heard that it's a common UK phenomenon.

Why would this be, I wonder ???

Loo roll

There is a first-hand account (I think in 'The Heavenly Man') of a Chinese Christian who was imprisoned 'for his faith' and given some of the least pleasant jobs to do, like cleaning out the Commandant's latrine. He was of course denied any access to a Bible.

The Commandant, to make a point about his contempt for the Bible, confiscated any copies his officers found, and used them page by page for the most disgusting purpose he could dream up.

The individual pages were in due course retrieved by the cleaner faithfully performing the task assigned to him by the prison authorities, cleaned up, then lovingly secreted away and preserved for their originally intended use .....

'God moves in a mysterious way ....' and, I say, has a sense of humour.

Avuncular that's a great account!

Avuncular - there are no such thing as secular state schools in the UK.

Why would this be, I wonder ???
because schools capable of selecting on any criterion have an advantage.

Avuncular - you tell us why you think it is and I'll tell you if I agree.

Ellie said, ages ago:

So, if anyone wants to discuss the RC church they can't mention:

• the active & continual cover up for paedophiles
• the deliberate lying to vulnerable Africans about condoms
• telling gay teens that they are "disordered", prompting suicide in more than one case
• excommunicating raped children for having life saving abortions

etc....

Objecting to, or even raising these issues would make me a bigot, right?

And I say:

Wrong. Those issues can be and are critiqued and discussed outside the church and inside it.

What would make you a bigot is assuming that those issues are ALL of the church, mistaking the part for the whole.

I don't stay in the RC church because of those things. I stay in it despite those things. But I do stay in it, because to me the RC church is not primarily a way to thinking about sexuality or gender. It's secularists who see this as its main function and face, not me.

I would by the way take YOU far more seriously if you conflated the RC church with anti-semitism and condoning the Shoah. But you almost never do. It's always about sex.

Hi Dad

I really don't know; that's why I asked.

I've heard some interesting views expressed but don't have the time to go researching it thoroughly at the moment. All I know is that parents were really keen to get their kids into 'our' school - though there was a perfectly good 'ordinary' school up the road (which all our 4 DCs had been to). Interestingly, one of DCs teachers was later recruited as HT in the CofE school.

Grimma - don't understand your point; the school I mentioned did not select, as I recall. I think it was first come, first served provided any catchment criteria were met. Probably I was a BAD GOVERNOR not to have been fully au fait.

Himalaya - I meant non-faith, non-anything else. Local Authority? Anyway I realise they are/were all subject to the requirement for 'collective worship' - is that the term?

Getting a bit off-thread. Sorry, OP

I'm guessing it's for one of the usual reasons people over-apply for schools: it has excellent results, or it is outstanding in some other way, or has a good strong ethos/reputation... or a combination of all of the above to some degree. I doubt it has anything to do with the faith component.

Twas you, sieglinde who dramatically declared "I AM the catholic church". Of course this only holds true until we start discussing child rapists, and then you're only PART of it, right?

Oh man......

No, I didn't mention the anti-semitism. To be honest, if I really went to town listing all of the moral failings & crimes of the catholic church I'd be here till next Tuesday.

I think I made it quite clear too that I don't accept that all catholics bear responsibility for the crimes of the church. Nominally (even though I didn't ask to be & apparently I can't be removed) I AM a Roman Catholic.

And yes, it is all about sex, isn't it? The Catholics are utterly obsessed with it.

And yes, it is all about sex, isn't it? The Catholics are utterly obsessed with it.

Hmm, the only people more obsessed with sex than catholics are the critics of the catholic church imo.

Extraordinary logic, ethelb.

The catholic church causes immense harm with it's medieval attitude to sex. Critics have little option but to discuss the issues it has itself raised. If they weren't telling people what they may or may not do with their own genitals, then we wouldn't need to discuss the matter at all.

Person A: Does my hair look OK? What do you think of my hair? Do you like my hair?

Person B: Your hair looks fine. Why do you worry about your hair so much?

Person C: OMG! What are you asking about my hair for? You're obsessed with my hair!

That's the "logic" you just tried to use, ethelb.

Avuncular - I should have been more specific - its VA schools which do select by religion which are the main issue - loads of those hereabouts. VC faith schools operate same admissions as any other LEA school.

(sorry, in haste without fully reading all posts since mine)

Avuncular that's ok, I'm finding the discussions you're all having interesting, I just don't feel knowledgeable enough to join in with them :)

Have you deleted those idiots off FB yet, IneedA? Calling someone a stuck up cow (or whatever devastatingly witty riposte it was) is not actually engaging in debate about beliefs & or religious ideas. If they are too pig ignorant to know that then they are not worth a nanosecond more of your time. IMO.

ethelb is right.

ellie, if you could list so many RC crimes, why don't you EVER start with some that aren't about sex? I think it's because you feel personally threatened by RC ideas on sex, and not by e.g. racial hate crimes in the past.

Perhaps while you are making out your list, you might want to look at the huge number of lives saved by the Catholic aid agencies? Whose workers often risk their lives in regions think you may not have visited?

I also did NOT say I'm not somehow connected with and though not directly understandable as responsible for the church's attitudes - just that you rather idiotically assumed, as did others, that I stick to the church because i like its ideas about sex or somehow need them. My point is very simply that I stick to it despite those - to me - minor matters.

Are you for example at all interested in ANY other aspect of Catholic moral theology? In any way? Or in worship, or prayer, or the text of the Bible? Anything?

ethelb is right No, she's not.

ellie, if you could list so many RC crimes, why don't you EVER start with some that aren't about sex? Why does it matter? Really - why? It's like a man in court saying, "But M'Lud, you keep going on about the rape I committed - are you obsessed with sex or something? I'm also a racist, you know...start with that!

I think it's because you feel personally threatened by RC ideas on sex Then you're wrong.

just that you rather idiotically assumed, as did others, that I stick to the church because i like its ideas about sex or somehow need them Show me the quote where I said any such thing, idiotically, or otherwise.

minor matters African's dying of AIDS is a minor matter? Teenagers killing themselves is a minor matter? Gosh.

Are you for example at all interested in ANY other aspect of Catholic moral theology? In any way? Or in worship, or prayer, or the text of the Bible? Anything? Interested? No. Nonsense doesn't interest me. Knowledgeable & aware, yes.

I deleted one of them, because his last few statuses have been vile in general, and switched the others to restricted viewing so I can post in peace and they won't know :)

From what little I know, sounds like a good plan Ineed.

If outsiders are more interested in various churches attitudes to sex and gender (I'm thinking more of the CofE with its women/gay bishops in the news recently) it may simply be because those are comprehensible issues. They are matters on which secular ethics are fairly clear - gender/orientation discrimination is wrong - similarly with the covering up of child abuse. It happens/has happened in churches other than the RC, in children's homes, hospitals, the BBC - its clearly wrong and in the secular organisations its obvious now that there must be no covering up, no excuses.

Dad

sneakily admitting I was kite-flying, but having actually paused for thought now.

I think it's probably because the school atmosphere is often 'nicer' i.e. because the type of children are nicer, because the parents were nicer ... which may go back to the fact that the families tended to have CofE connections in the past.

But I've come across quite a lot of 'nice' Muslim families etc etc.

And I certainly was concerned that as a VC (wot's the other one Grimma?) school there was no particular requirement for the teachers to have a Christian faith of any quality whatsoever. Probably going to get myself into deep water by rambling and over the definition of 'nice' etc ........

Look out for my rant over the difference between being 'religious' and being a 'true follower of Christ' (or indeed The Prophet, probably). Working up to it.

In the mean time, woe betide anyone who has a 'fish' badge on their car yet breaks the speed limit ...........

Too much sherry before tea I fear (is that allowed?)

Desktop computer throwing a wobbly ..... gotta go

Why would having C of E connections necessarily make you "nicer"?

I don't think there should be any faith schools at all. They make about as much sense as schooling according to what football team the parents support.